#beagle IRC Log on BeagleBoard.org

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IRC Log for 2008-10-11

Timestamps are in UTC.

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  8. [00:43:17] <mru> anyone had any luck with gcc-csl 2008q3?
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  34. [07:17:09] <Xenion> Guuuuuuuuuuten Morgen !!! :-) | Goooooood Morning
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  44. [08:38:27] <[X]Spot> how can I copy and install application on ANgstrom distro, after building it with : bitbake package (OE) ?
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  46. [08:47:14] <zedstar> scp it over and opkg install it
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  49. [09:28:18] <[X]Spot> zedstar but where is the build package ?
  50. [09:30:52] * jes2 (n=jess@117.195.131.244) has joined #beagle
  51. [09:34:32] <zedstar> xspot something like <whatever>/tmp/deploy/glibc/ipk/armv7a/ ?
  52. [09:35:52] <zedstar> or do a find for the name*.ipk in your build area
  53. [09:40:35] <[X]Spot> zedstar bitbake package.. : download, configure, compile and build the package
  54. [09:40:54] <[X]Spot> how can I configure the package with my settings ?
  55. [09:41:47] <zedstar> are you asking how to write a recipe?
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  64. [11:23:34] <mru> morning
  65. [11:30:45] <felipec> morning mru
  66. [11:31:19] <mru> I've been trying to use gcc-csl 2008q3
  67. [11:31:25] <mru> so far, it miscompiles ffmpeg
  68. [11:37:33] <felipec> mru: the neon optimized stuff?
  69. [11:37:37] * jbenedetto (n=jbenedet@c-24-131-229-153.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) has joined #beagle
  70. [11:37:42] <mru> plain C code
  71. [11:37:54] <mru> the neon optimisations are written in pure assembler
  72. [11:38:00] <mru> so gcc doesn't get to mess with those
  73. [11:38:32] <felipec> mru: hmm, weird, I haven't had any problems... but I haven't compiled much with it
  74. [11:38:43] <mru> ffmpeg is notorious for breaking compilers
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  80. [12:22:35] <mru> oh dear, 2008q3 can't even compile a trivial copy loop correctly
  81. [12:23:04] <mru> for (i = 0; i < len; i++) dst[i] = src[i];
  82. [12:23:56] <kulve> their 2008qX toolchains haven't really succeeded..
  83. [12:24:00] * woski (n=dleme@65.182.51.67) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  84. [12:24:16] <mru> seems -ftree-vectorize is on by default
  85. [12:24:20] <mru> and it's oh so broken
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  87. [12:25:03] <mru> it tries to use neon to load/store 8 bytes at a time
  88. [12:25:16] * Xenion (n=robert@p579FC994.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #beagle
  89. [12:25:23] <mru> this fails if src and dst are not both 8-byte aligned
  90. [12:25:29] <kulve> "Improved support for NEON and, in particular, auto-vectorization using
  91. [12:25:29] <kulve> NEON."
  92. [12:25:38] <mru> rotfl
  93. [12:26:39] <mru> it's back to 2007q3 here
  94. [12:27:36] <felipec> mrc3: 2008q1 doesn't work correctly either?
  95. [12:27:42] <mru> never tried it
  96. [12:27:43] <kulve> yeah, it doesn't
  97. [12:27:47] <mru> everybody said it was broken
  98. [12:28:01] <felipec> that's what I've been using
  99. [12:28:19] <mru> brave man, and lucky
  100. [12:28:27] <kulve> felipec: people say that it compiles broken NEON
  101. [12:28:48] <mru> if 2008q3 does broken neon, I wouldn't expect better from 2008q1
  102. [12:29:08] <felipec> kulve: I'm not compiling NEON stuff
  103. [12:29:20] <felipec> ah, maybe that's why I couldn't compile omapfbplay
  104. [12:29:22] <mru> -mfpu=neon is enough to trigger it
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  109. [12:32:06] <felipec> mru: how about sending a mail to the cs ml?
  110. [12:35:00] <mru> won't they just tell me to buy the supported version or shut up?
  111. [12:35:13] <pbrook> probably :-)
  112. [12:35:52] <pbrook> ICBW, but I though someone at ARM was supposed to be testing these things.
  113. [12:36:06] <mru> I'll notify ARM
  114. [12:36:14] <mru> they usually listen
  115. [12:36:36] <kulve> mru: who do you notify at ARM?
  116. [12:36:59] <pbrook> They (and all our paying customers) get a 1-month preview release so they can shout and get things fixed before the final public release goes out.
  117. [12:38:34] <mru> kulve: where did you find that bit you quoted above?
  118. [12:38:45] <kulve> http://www.codesourcery.com/archives/arm-gnu-announce/msg00024.html
  119. [12:39:00] <mru> pbrook: are you with codesourcery?
  120. [12:39:06] <pbrook> Yes
  121. [12:39:25] <kulve> mru: and something similar in http://www.codesourcery.com/gnu_toolchains/arm
  122. [12:39:31] * pbrook was the release manager for all but the last release.
  123. [12:39:34] <kulve> "Better NEON vectorization!"
  124. [12:39:41] <mru> yeah, I saw that
  125. [12:39:53] <mru> maybe it is better
  126. [12:39:58] <mru> just not yet working
  127. [12:43:21] <pbrook> If noone reports bugs, we can't fix it.
  128. [12:43:31] <mru> consider it reported
  129. [12:43:47] <mru> and people have been complaining about 2008q1 for months
  130. [12:43:49] <pbrook> "ffmpeg broke" isn't what I consider to be a decent bugreport.
  131. [12:44:17] <pbrook> We don't do updates to the lite releases. Most those bugs were fixed in our product toolcahins fairly quickly.
  132. [12:44:39] <kulve> mru: back to old topic. Did you notice my question yesterday (15:54 UTC) about scaling with omapfb?
  133. [12:44:59] <mru> pbrook: and you've still not fixed them in the lite release, it would seem
  134. [12:45:19] <mru> what's the point in publishing known-broken compilers?
  135. [12:45:29] <mru> do you think it will make people more willing to pay?
  136. [12:45:32] <pbrook> mru: We aren't aware of any open bugs.
  137. [12:45:37] <mru> now you are
  138. [12:45:40] <pbrook> No.
  139. [12:45:47] <mru> I just fucking told you
  140. [12:45:56] <pbrook> You said that ffmpeg is busted.
  141. [12:45:58] <mru> it can't compile a bloody copy loop
  142. [12:46:03] <mru> scroll up a few pages
  143. [12:46:15] <mru> ffmpeg is fine, the compiler is busted
  144. [12:46:25] <kulve> 15:25 < mru> it tries to use neon to load/store 8 bytes at a time
  145. [12:46:25] <kulve> 15:25 < mru> this fails if src and dst are not both 8-byte aligned
  146. [12:46:33] <pbrook> Well, I'm pretty sure our test work ok.
  147. [12:46:44] <mru> see, no point reporting bugs
  148. [12:46:49] <mru> "our tests work"
  149. [12:46:50] <mru> bah
  150. [12:47:06] <pbrook> Any I'm pretty sure our tests will over the code you quoted.
  151. [12:47:06] <mru> what did you test? produces any output at all?
  152. [12:47:24] <mru> you must be wrong then
  153. [12:47:29] <mru> because it *does* fail here
  154. [12:52:40] <felipec> mru: not just cs is on the ml, if you can send code that doesn't compile correctly other people will be interested
  155. [12:55:06] <felipec> and my guess is that cs would be interested in fixing it too
  156. [12:55:35] <pbrook> mru: I just tried your code, and it looks fine. gcc aligns the source pointer, and uses vst1 for the destination store.
  157. [12:55:48] <mru> it's the load that fails
  158. [12:56:01] <mru> it uses vldm there
  159. [12:56:06] <pbrook> Yes.
  160. [12:56:15] <mru> and vldm requires strict alignment
  161. [12:56:22] <pbrook> Yes.
  162. [12:56:27] <mru> and it doesn't check it
  163. [12:57:14] <pbrook> Mine certainly does.
  164. [12:57:34] <mru> maybe you're using the pay-for version
  165. [12:57:39] <pbrook> It peels sufficient iterations of the loop that the inner vector loop is always known to be aligned.
  166. [12:57:52] <pbrook> No. I'm using the 2008q3 binaries.
  167. [13:01:02] <mru> well, explain why it doesn't work
  168. [13:01:09] <mru> did you try running the generated code?
  169. [13:01:14] <pbrook> Not yet.
  170. [13:01:23] <mru> I'll post a full example in a bit
  171. [13:07:33] * tulpe (n=ask@p54AF6376.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #beagle
  172. [13:13:42] <tulpe> hi.. i got angstrom running. what's a good wlan stick that runs with the board?
  173. [13:16:00] <mru> pbrook: ok, here's a test case: http://pastebin.com/m186bc0a9 http://pastebin.com/m7f85a7a1
  174. [13:16:15] <mru> save those in separate files, and compile/link it
  175. [13:17:24] <mru> if they're in the same file, gcc knows too much, and optimises out the bad code
  176. [13:21:39] <felipec> mru: which flags?
  177. [13:22:11] <mru> -fmpu=neon -mfloat-abi=softfp -mcpu=cortex-a8 -O3
  178. [13:22:14] <pbrook> Hum, that's interesting.
  179. [13:22:29] <pbrook> Looks like it might be aligning the wrong argument.
  180. [13:22:34] <mru> heh
  181. [13:22:53] <Crofton|work> don't tell him he's right, he be impossible :)
  182. [13:23:03] <Crofton|work> he'll be that is
  183. [13:34:56] * lukketto (n=luca@host86-192-dynamic.7-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #beagle
  184. [13:55:28] <mru> pbrook: does it break for you too?
  185. [13:59:14] <jkridner> good morning all
  186. [13:59:35] <mru> morning jkridner
  187. [13:59:39] <Xenion> hello jkridner
  188. [13:59:55] <mru> we were just discussing gcc-csl, and how it's still broken
  189. [14:00:11] <pbrook> Yeah, I just submitted an internal bugreport.
  190. [14:00:31] <mru> pbrook: thanks
  191. [14:00:37] <pbrook> Our test environment apparently doesn't enforce alignment requirements.
  192. [14:00:45] <mru> what do you test it on?
  193. [14:00:51] <pbrook> Mostly qemu
  194. [14:00:57] <mru> use real hardware
  195. [14:01:00] <mru> much more reliable
  196. [14:01:03] <pbrook> Real hardware sucks.
  197. [14:01:16] <pbrook> And for the most part doesn't really exist yet.
  198. [14:01:40] <mru> cortex-a8 hardware is readily available
  199. [14:01:48] <pbrook> Barely.
  200. [14:01:54] <pbrook> Real hardware tends to be horribly unreliable.
  201. [14:02:19] <pbrook> Beagleboard kenrels are certainly fairly hit-and-miss for any sort of serious use.
  202. [14:02:54] <mru> more reliable than your compiler at least
  203. [14:03:57] <pbrook> In my experience beagleboard USB isn't.
  204. [14:04:25] <mru> works for me
  205. [14:04:33] <mru> and how does that relate to compilers anyway?
  206. [14:04:51] <pbrook> You were claiming that real hardware was more reliable than out compilers.
  207. [14:04:57] <mru> it is
  208. [14:05:05] <mru> the beagle board works as advertised
  209. [14:05:08] <mru> your compiler doesn't
  210. [14:05:12] <pbrook> Rubbish.
  211. [14:05:43] <mru> are you telling me I'm dreaming, and that it didn't just produce bad code for a trivial copy loop?
  212. [14:06:01] <hli> is the new codesourcery gcc version more reliable ?
  213. [14:06:09] <mru> that's the one we're talking about
  214. [14:06:57] <mru> if it's better than the last one, I dread to think what that was like
  215. [14:07:07] <hli> so there are still a lot of bugs :/ ?
  216. [14:07:24] <pbrook> Are you telling me I'm dreaming, and it doesn't fall over in a big heap every time I plug in a bluetoot dongle, SVIDEO out plain doesn't work, video mode selection is not hardcoded, and audio craps on on a good proportion of kenrel?
  217. [14:07:29] <mru> hli: http://hardwarebug.org/2008/10/11/codesourcery-gcc-2008q3-fail/
  218. [14:07:54] <mru> pbrook: why would you need any of those to test a compiler?
  219. [14:08:01] <pbrook> USB, yes.
  220. [14:08:06] <mru> you messed up, and you might as well admit it
  221. [14:08:25] <mru> how hard could it be to load up an sd card with test cases?
  222. [14:08:28] <pbrook> Sure, it's a bug. Apparently noone else bothered to test the toolchains either though.
  223. [14:08:52] <pbrook> Our test runs take several days on real hardware.
  224. [14:09:04] <mru> then run them for several days
  225. [14:09:26] <hli> it really sucks :/
  226. [14:09:38] * Crofton|work (n=balister@66-207-66-26.black.dmt.ntelos.net) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  227. [14:09:41] * Crofton (n=balister@66-207-66-26.black.dmt.ntelos.net) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  228. [14:09:42] <pbrook> Several wekks, if you have to manually shuffle everything back and forth.
  229. [14:09:58] * Crofton|work (n=balister@66-207-66-26.black.dmt.ntelos.net) has joined #beagle
  230. [14:10:12] <mru> I'd happily wait another week or two if that meant getting something that actually works
  231. [14:10:32] <pbrook> mru: So buy a subscription, and do it.
  232. [14:10:56] <pbrook> The Lite releases are already delayed by a month.
  233. [14:10:57] <mru> the priorites are, in my opinion: 1) do it right. 2) do it fast. 3) do it soon
  234. [14:11:23] <mru> in commercial environments, those tend to be reversed
  235. [14:11:52] <mru> pay for gcc? are you kidding?
  236. [14:12:07] <pbrook> You get what you pay for.
  237. [14:12:22] <jkridner> someone has to pay for work.
  238. [14:12:30] <hli> gcc is GPL, paying for it is a fraud
  239. [14:12:46] <pbrook> You paid nothing, so you get the unsupported twice yearly drops.
  240. [14:12:58] * no1234 (n=masta@p5493C097.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #beagle
  241. [14:13:02] <mru> unsupported is fine, unusuable is not
  242. [14:13:04] <jkridner> I think Stallman's idea was that people get paid for the first release.
  243. [14:13:22] <no1234> hi guys!
  244. [14:13:33] <jkridner> hi no1234, any luck on that serial port?
  245. [14:13:39] <pbrook> mru: You're welcome to go build, test, debug and maintain your own gcc from the FSF sources.
  246. [14:13:41] <jkridner> I guess your problems were looking more serious.
  247. [14:14:04] <mru> pbrook: why do you even bother with the lite releases?
  248. [14:14:15] <pbrook> Because ARM pays us to do them.
  249. [14:14:26] <mru> ah, so someone *is* paying
  250. [14:14:41] <mru> then why don't *they* get what they paid for?
  251. [14:14:45] <pbrook> They do.
  252. [14:14:56] <no1234> well actually it turned out that all cables and adapter were correct. I also measured the powersupply wich has 5.18V output.
  253. [14:15:03] <mru> did they ask for a broken compiler?
  254. [14:15:36] <pbrook> We give them a prerelease a month before it's publicly releases. They test and certify that the release is acceptable.
  255. [14:15:56] <no1234> But even without anything but the powersupply connected only the pwr led is on...
  256. [14:15:57] <jkridner> certain releases may have issues, but you have to agree that CS is improving the ARM Cortex-A8 support in the compiler significantly.
  257. [14:16:16] <hli> i bought a BeagleBoard and finally i saw there is a lot of unsupported things. I'm seriously pissed off because I also bought a pandora and i really feared it would be the same for a long time
  258. [14:16:19] <jkridner> no1234: is it possible you provided too much voltage at one point and damaged the board?
  259. [14:16:31] <jkridner> no1234: 5.5V is the absolute maximum
  260. [14:16:39] <mru> jkridner: I can't tell whether they've improved anything, as long as basic functionality is broken
  261. [14:16:58] * emeb (n=ericb@ip72-223-84-209.ph.ph.cox.net) has joined #beagle
  262. [14:17:10] <jkridner> mru: the patches they get upstream have added significant functionality.
  263. [14:17:15] <no1234> i only plugged the powersupply shipped from digi-key... also tried the usb method with the same result
  264. [14:17:45] <mru> maybe they do some good things too, I can't tell
  265. [14:17:48] <jkridner> I have also seen broken basic functions in the lite releases, but I also find them very helpful. at least enough to not be angry.
  266. [14:17:55] <mru> but they certainly have an attitude problem
  267. [14:18:31] <jkridner> it would be nice if they would do public bugfix releases.
  268. [14:18:44] <mru> now that's an understatement
  269. [14:19:09] <mru> or even publish a list of known issues
  270. [14:19:14] <pbrook> mru: If you mean we ignore random people who aren't our customers whinging on IRC about something we gave away for free, then yes.
  271. [14:20:01] <no1234> do you think there is any chance to get the board working?
  272. [14:21:16] <jkridner> no1234: it doesn't look very good.
  273. [14:21:17] <pbrook> mru: If you believe there are exception circumstances that warrant a Lite rebuild, you need to convince ARM of that.
  274. [14:21:35] <mru> fine, I'll see what ARM has to say
  275. [14:21:35] <jkridner> no1234: do you have anything besides the power connector connected?
  276. [14:22:13] <jkridner> adding FFmpeg to the test suite might be a nice way to go. a lot of people use that.
  277. [14:22:57] <Crofton|work> heh
  278. [14:23:00] <pbrook> If you want hardware testing on a particular platform and/or a particular application, you'll probably have to find someone to pay for that.
  279. [14:23:03] <no1234> the first time i connected the board there was nothing but the power supply, but only pwr led. Then I checked the rs232 connection without success (nothing being send to my terminal, but the loopback test as described in the doc woks)
  280. [14:23:19] <Crofton|work> just use OE to build a bunch of stuff and test the resutl :)
  281. [14:23:32] <no1234> after that i connected an dvi monitor and sound with the same result...
  282. [14:23:39] <jkridner> no1234: so, USR0/USR1 *never* came on?
  283. [14:23:45] <no1234> nop
  284. [14:23:48] <no1234> never
  285. [14:23:59] <jkridner> sorry to say, but it looks like RMA time then.
  286. [14:24:03] <jkridner> where are you located?
  287. [14:24:08] <no1234> Germany
  288. [14:24:53] <jkridner> in the future, we are going to try to get RMA boards pushed out to the regions, but today it still requires shipping to/from the US.
  289. [14:25:15] <jkridner> you can find RMA instructions at http://beagleboard.org/support/rma
  290. [14:25:32] <jkridner> well, the form anyway. not much for instructions.
  291. [14:25:43] <jkridner> wait for the e-mail reply before sending the board.
  292. [14:25:54] <no1234> ok thank you very much
  293. [14:26:02] <jkridner> http://beagleboard.org/support/
  294. [14:26:09] <jkridner> sorry for the problem.
  295. [14:26:32] * Crofton (n=balister@66-207-66-26.black.dmt.ntelos.net) has joined #beagle
  296. [14:26:35] * Olipro_ (n=Olipro@uncyclopedia/Olipro) has joined #beagle
  297. [14:26:42] <no1234> No problem! Really like this channel and helpfull people!
  298. [14:26:44] <felipec> mrc3: read Greg Kroah-Hartman's slides, cs is a major contributor to GCC
  299. [14:26:55] <felipec> er, that was for mru
  300. [14:27:01] * nathanm (n=nathan@adsl-69-106-228-95.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
  301. [14:27:06] <mru> all the more worrying
  302. [14:27:50] <felipec> mru: how so?
  303. [14:28:05] <mru> untested code being pushed back into mainline gcc
  304. [14:28:30] <felipec> mru: who said it was untested?
  305. [14:28:34] <mru> pbrook
  306. [14:28:46] <felipec> mru: that was the cs release, not the code merged
  307. [14:28:52] <mru> he said they were too cheap to test on real hardware
  308. [14:29:05] <mru> why should I believe the merged code is any better?
  309. [14:30:31] <pbrook> mru: Most of this code is written before hardware is available.
  310. [14:30:51] <mru> cortex-a8 hardware has been around for quite a while
  311. [14:31:01] <pbrook> Really?
  312. [14:31:06] <felipec> mru: right, you would have to assume there's somebody like you, but that also does something productive like test the code cs pushes upstream
  313. [14:31:16] <mru> I've had a beagle board since June
  314. [14:31:39] <mru> note to self: never help felipec again
  315. [14:32:47] <pbrook> mru: I'm pretty sure it wasn't generally available until a couple of months ago, which is too late for the 2008q3 release
  316. [14:33:04] <mru> I'm sure you could have got some early samples had you bothered asking
  317. [14:33:12] <mru> worked for me...
  318. [14:34:36] <felipec> mru: seriously, I think there's people concerned like you, but are testing upstream gcc, maybe I'm wrong, but the point is that is somebody wants something to get done, you either have to do it or pay somebody else to do it
  319. [14:34:41] <pbrook> mru: We talked with someone from ar about that. The conclusion what that the BSP probably wouldn't be done, so there wasn't much point.
  320. [14:34:53] <felipec> s/is somebody/if somebody/
  321. [14:35:16] <pbrook> Also, the current A8 hardware has the NEON lockup bug, which makes automated testing kinda sketchy.
  322. [14:35:24] <mru> bug reports to upstream gcc generally get ignored
  323. [14:35:49] <mru> or denied
  324. [14:36:17] <jkridner> pbrook: seems that the NEON lockup bug could be somehow configuration related. I'm not sure how that can be, but we are internally said to have a Linux release that prevents the issue, even on ES2.1.
  325. [14:36:33] <jkridner> sorry for the sketchy information, but I'm just learning about this.
  326. [14:36:57] <mru> disabling L1 cache would prevent it from showing
  327. [14:37:14] <jkridner> we'll see if it is that ugly of a hack or not.
  328. [14:37:27] <pbrook> This is a prime example of why we don't like hardware :-)
  329. [14:37:41] * Olipro (i=Olipro@uncyclopedia/Olipro) Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
  330. [14:37:49] <pbrook> Especially early/pre-production hardware.
  331. [14:37:50] <jkridner> well, ultimately things must work on hardware.
  332. [14:38:13] <jkridner> better to work-around real issues than to target vapor.
  333. [14:38:40] <mru> pbrook: if you tested on hardware earlier, some hardware bugs would be found sooner too
  334. [14:39:00] <felipec> jkridner: so what do you propose? start to work on compilers after the hardware is stable?
  335. [14:39:07] <pbrook> We've done that before. And wasted lots of time.
  336. [14:39:07] <jkridner> not at all.
  337. [14:39:19] <mru> start testing on hardware as soon as any hardware at all is available
  338. [14:39:20] <jkridner> just that we should supply hardware as early as possible...
  339. [14:39:37] <jkridner> but I understand if it cannot be 100% integrated into the production flow.
  340. [14:40:26] <felipec> yes, but the emulator development takes a lot of effort, and then you want testing on hardware, which also takes a lot of effort, my guess is that more resources are needed to target both
  341. [14:40:32] <pbrook> It's certainly doable, but not something we currently have the resources to do on a large scale.
  342. [14:41:36] <jkridner> does all of this come down to someone funding a release for Beagle or some other hardware platform?
  343. [14:41:38] <pbrook> The emulator is part of our product anyway, so we know how to do that. We don't have any hardware engineers and don't have any real kernel engineers or distro builders, so are reliant on someone else to all that.
  344. [14:42:21] <Crofton|work> koen added 2008q3 to OE before he took off
  345. [14:42:32] <Crofton|work> it is possible to build Angstrom for the beagle with it
  346. [14:42:51] <jkridner> pbrook: but it is always a problem when you own both sides (spec and implementation) that some things don't get communicated.
  347. [14:43:12] <pbrook> jkridner: That's certainly a possibility. Buying a subscription, doing the testing and filing bugs against the prelease would probably get you a lot of the way there.
  348. [14:44:07] <jkridner> k, TI owns some subscriptions, but hasn't been filing many bugs against it, as far as I know. I only know of one bug filed.
  349. [14:45:14] <felipec> jkridner: maybe TI should be taking a look at the issues the community finds?
  350. [14:45:17] <jkridner> no reason to point all the issues back to CS if the hardware folks aren't keeping up to our part of the bargain.
  351. [14:45:30] <jkridner> felipec: sounds like it.
  352. [14:45:57] * igor321 (n=igor@160-6.dsl.iskon.hr) has joined #beagle
  353. [14:46:23] * jkridner pulls from his pool of infinite resources. :)
  354. [14:46:36] <felipec> probably we at Nokia should be doing that too... but we are not so close to the community as we should be =/
  355. [14:47:11] <jkridner> in case the sarcasm didn't come through, it was there, but I think I can entice someone to take that on.
  356. [14:47:24] <jkridner> depending on the size/number of bugs we are talking about.
  357. [14:48:05] <jkridner> from what I've seen, they've been minor, but fundamental. clearing that layer, however, could turn up new issues.
  358. [14:48:45] * Crofton (n=balister@66-207-66-26.black.dmt.ntelos.net) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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  360. [14:49:23] <jkridner> perhaps we could start by accepting bugs on code.google.com/p/beagleboard?
  361. [14:49:51] <Crofton|work> accepting bugs is one thing
  362. [14:49:59] <Crofton|work> you need a way to fix bugs :)
  363. [14:50:11] <mru> admitting them would be a start...
  364. [14:50:14] <jkridner> some issues have lived there a long time...
  365. [14:50:24] <Crofton|work> yeah
  366. [14:50:27] <Crofton|work> that gets depressing
  367. [14:50:39] <jkridner> but, I think the attention beagleboard is getting might help get someone looking at them.
  368. [14:53:15] * felipec didn't notice the bb "bugzilla" until now
  369. [14:53:44] <Crofton|work> jkridner, I suspect you'd have to pay Hogwarts to have someone read the bb bugs
  370. [14:54:57] <jkridner> we have paid some, but probably not enough. :)
  371. [14:56:06] <jkridner> just having someone track the issues could have its own rewards.
  372. [14:57:29] <jkridner> the OE stuff has been going so well (along with using CSL 2007q3) that I have not been pushing hard on fixing the other releases.
  373. [14:58:09] <Crofton|work> someone could try building Angstrom with 2008q3
  374. [14:58:17] <Crofton|work> but I am busy with other things
  375. [14:58:27] <Crofton|work> jkridner, you need more interns
  376. [14:58:45] <jkridner> indeed!
  377. [14:59:07] * lukketto (n=luca@host86-192-dynamic.7-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
  378. [14:59:30] <jkridner> no one comes by my office without something to do. :)
  379. [15:00:13] <jkridner> of course, it would be nice to actually get into the office. won't be in until Friday as I'm back on the road again.
  380. [15:00:26] <Crofton|work> where now?
  381. [15:00:33] <jkridner> Seattle, WA.
  382. [15:00:41] <Crofton|work> I may have to do some work in Phoenix
  383. [15:00:48] <Crofton|work> hopefully not until Novemeber though
  384. [15:00:51] <Crofton|work> heh
  385. [15:00:56] <Crofton|work> home of the evil empire
  386. [15:00:56] <jkridner> then I have a few days to finish my ESC-Boston training before spending a week there.
  387. [15:00:58] <mru> november is closer than you thing...
  388. [15:01:00] <mru> think
  389. [15:01:03] <Crofton|work> yeah
  390. [15:01:16] <Crofton|work> I have to rpesent some Beagle SDR stuff the last week on Oct
  391. [15:01:21] <jkridner> need to insert about 4 new weeks into October somehow. :)
  392. [15:03:31] <Crofton|work> I need to make no commitments for December
  393. [15:38:10] * garren (n=garren@iburst-41-213-57-157.iburst.co.za) has joined #beagle
  394. [15:50:13] <garren> hi all
  395. [16:04:30] * garren (n=garren@iburst-41-213-57-157.iburst.co.za) Quit ("Ex-Chat")
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  415. [18:23:35] <kulve> testing official builds solely with an emulator instead of real hardware sounds a bit risky to me. And testing with more complex real world examples instead of only hand crafted test cases usually reveals new issues. You can't never test enough..
  416. [18:24:20] <pbrook> You've got to draw the line somewhere.
  417. [18:25:17] <pbrook> We do some testing on real hardware.
  418. [18:25:25] <kulve> yeah and usually it's drawn too low because of schedules etc. business issues..
  419. [18:25:34] <mru> pbrook: what? hello world?
  420. [18:25:54] <pbrook> That's one of them yes.
  421. [18:26:23] <Crofton|work> :)
  422. [18:26:24] <kulve> pbrook: maybe you should publish your testcases? Others could use them then too and maybe add more missing test cases.. :)
  423. [18:26:37] <pbrook> kulve: Mostly it's the gcc testsuite.
  424. [18:26:38] <Crofton|work> that would be really embaressing to have not work
  425. [18:26:53] <pbrook> Crofton: You'd be surprised...
  426. [18:26:57] <mru> well, they did break memcpy
  427. [18:27:16] <mru> hard to say which is more embarassing
  428. [18:27:26] <pbrook> There's also several dozen different targets.
  429. [18:27:34] <mru> excuses, excuses...
  430. [18:27:53] <Crofton|work> I need to figure out what generic_interupt does in the kernel .....
  431. [18:27:54] <pbrook> Getting "complete" test coverage is something that would probably be a full time job for a team of people.
  432. [18:28:24] <mru> I'm not asking for testing complete test coverage
  433. [18:28:34] <mru> I'm asking for basic stuff working with default settings
  434. [18:28:36] <pbrook> I don't remember if any of our current ARM hardware is stable enough to do real test runs on.
  435. [18:29:26] <Crofton|work> http://rafb.net/p/gfQW5J36.html
  436. [18:29:30] <mru> someone at ARM told me they *did* report bugs on the prerelease
  437. [18:29:34] <mru> didn't go into specifics
  438. [18:29:44] <pbrook> And did those bugs get fixed?
  439. [18:30:30] <mru> he expressed surprise at this being released now
  440. [18:31:07] <pbrook> There should be no surprise about the release date. It coincides with ARM DevCon.
  441. [18:31:25] <mru> oh, so that's the explanation
  442. [18:31:33] <mru> release on specific date, rather than when functional
  443. [18:31:39] <pbrook> No.
  444. [18:31:43] <mru> idiotic practise
  445. [18:31:55] <pbrook> At the time of release, we weren't aware of any critical bugs.
  446. [18:32:12] <mru> that's your word against ARM's
  447. [18:32:22] <mru> I suggest you contact them and sort things out
  448. [18:32:22] <pbrook> We have a bug tracker to prove it.
  449. [18:32:36] <pbrook> If they didn't file a bug, that's their own fault.
  450. [18:32:55] <mru> they say they did...
  451. [18:32:59] <Crofton|work> can you two agree to disagree?
  452. [18:33:19] * mru goes off to stab someone on the ps3
  453. [18:33:30] <Crofton|work> what game?
  454. [18:33:47] <Crofton|work> I've been playing Warhawls lately
  455. [18:33:56] <mru> assassin's creed
  456. [18:34:23] <Crofton|work> I'll have to look it up
  457. [18:34:33] <mru> beatiful graphics
  458. [18:34:37] <mru> and you get to stab people
  459. [18:39:15] <Crofton|work> um stabbering people
  460. [19:06:36] * gcohler (n=gcohler@pool-72-93-217-203.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) has joined #beagle
  461. [19:16:15] * bazbell (n=a0192809@nat/ti/x-c14cd1acfd8540da) Quit ("Leaving.")
  462. [19:38:51] <jkridner> hi gcohler
  463. [19:41:03] <Crofton|work> http://rafb.net/p/gfQW5J36.html
  464. [19:41:16] <Crofton|work> need to convert the fir stuff to real NEON :)
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  472. [20:31:03] <nathanm> Crofton: Does it run at usable speed right now?
  473. [20:32:17] <mpoullet> Hi, regarding csl 2008q3, I've tried it with u-boot 1.3.3 and the resulting image was broken: a lot of i2c errors/timeout; with 2007q3 no problem. But maybe it's a bad idea to test it with u-boot?
  474. [20:32:19] <Crofton|work> not yet
  475. [20:32:34] * gcohler (n=gcohler@pool-72-93-217-203.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
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  483. [21:18:30] <jkridner> mpoullet: u-boot seems like a relatively simple target for testing the compiler.
  484. [21:24:18] * dcordes_ (n=dcordes@unaffiliated/dcordes) has joined #beagle
  485. [21:26:31] <mpoullet> jkridner: ok, I'll then test the latest Steve's u-boot too. Or has anybody already tried to do it?
  486. [21:28:47] <kulve> 2008q3 doesn't handle neon, so 2007q3 is still the recommended toolchain for beagle
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  488. [21:35:59] * dcordes (n=dcordes@unaffiliated/dcordes) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  489. [21:38:08] * gduncan (n=spec@h-67-101-179-14.lsanca54.covad.net) Quit ()
  490. [21:59:20] * Olipro_ (n=Olipro@uncyclopedia/Olipro) has joined #beagle
  491. [22:02:53] <mru> u-boot is simple code, true, but if something does go wrong, it's very hard to debug
  492. [22:06:30] * Xenion (n=robert@p579FC994.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit ("Verlassend")
  493. [22:13:34] * dcordes_ is now known as dcordes
  494. [22:16:40] * Olipro (n=Olipro@uncyclopedia/Olipro) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  495. [22:19:59] * Olipro_ is now known as Olipro
  496. [22:37:29] * mpoullet (n=mpoullet@p4FC18611.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has left #beagle
  497. [22:38:09] * gcohler (n=gcohler@pool-72-93-217-203.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) has joined #beagle
  498. [22:54:11] * dcordes (n=dcordes@unaffiliated/dcordes) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  499. [23:04:37] * Olipro_ (n=Olipro@uncyclopedia/Olipro) has joined #beagle
  500. [23:08:34] * Olipro_ (n=Olipro@uncyclopedia/Olipro) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  501. [23:08:43] * Olipro__ (n=Olipro@uncyclopedia/Olipro) has joined #beagle
  502. [23:11:03] * Olipro (n=Olipro@uncyclopedia/Olipro) Quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
  503. [23:16:27] * hli (i=chaton@vig91-2-82-232-97-149.fbx.proxad.net) Quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.3/2008092417]")
  504. [23:18:25] * Olipro_ (n=Olipro@uncyclopedia/Olipro) has joined #beagle
  505. [23:18:47] * zedstar (n=john@fsf/member/zedstar) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  506. [23:18:58] * woski (n=dleme@65.182.51.67) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  507. [23:19:24] * woski (n=dleme@65.182.51.67) has joined #beagle
  508. [23:23:26] * guillaum1 (n=Guillaum@AMontsouris-153-1-38-79.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr) Quit ("Leaving.")
  509. [23:24:25] * guillaum1 (n=gl@AMontsouris-153-1-38-79.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #beagle
  510. [23:25:13] * dcordes (n=dcordes@unaffiliated/dcordes) has joined #beagle
  511. [23:34:35] * gcohler (n=gcohler@pool-72-93-217-203.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
  512. [23:35:28] * Olipro__ (n=Olipro@uncyclopedia/Olipro) Quit (Success)
  513. [23:40:41] * Dionysus (n=dan@adsl-75-45-108-57.dsl.scrm01.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
  514. [23:44:38] * JimDonovan (n=jimd@c-66-30-223-191.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #beagle
  515. [23:45:34] * Olipro (n=Olipro@uncyclopedia/Olipro) has joined #beagle
  516. [23:49:45] * JimDonovan (n=jimd@c-66-30-223-191.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) Quit ("Leaving.")
  517. [23:50:47] * JimDonovan (n=jimd@c-66-30-223-191.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #beagle
  518. [23:56:52] * john280z (n=johnm@user-0c2h5av.cable.mindspring.com) has left #beagle
  519. [23:57:58] * felipec (n=felipec@a88-113-6-167.elisa-laajakaista.fi) Quit ("Leaving")
  520. [23:59:46] * Olipro_ (n=Olipro@uncyclopedia/Olipro) Quit (Connection timed out)

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