#beagle IRC Log on BeagleBoard.org

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IRC Log for 2012-02-20

Timestamps are in UTC.

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[00:09:53] <ATP> Maxz goodnight my friend thanks for help
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[00:40:25] <Xenland> anyone have a clue why when i use pyserial to read from /dev/ttyO1 aka uart1_rx?
[00:40:42] <Xenland> i get nothing?
[00:42:41] <Xenland> when i read my gps unit from my computer it works fine
[00:42:56] <Xenland> same script too
[00:43:30] <Xenland> (different file paths of course)
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[01:17:46] <multiplex> how many time does that take when i do xz -dkc Angstrom.....img.xz > /dev/mmcblk0
[01:17:56] <multiplex> more than 10 minutes
[01:18:40] <multiplex> because my command don't finish
[01:34:17] <multiplex> sorry it's ok just very long
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[03:40:42] <michaelshiloh> hello
[03:44:00] <Tabaliah> Hello michaelshiloh
[03:45:36] <michaelshiloh> I'm new here so I'm trying to be polite and spend more time listening than talking, but it seems pretty quiet tonight
[03:46:10] <Tabaliah> I'm new here as well and as of yet, for the time I have spent on FreeNode (which is a lot) I have never seen anyone talk in here.
[03:47:15] <scromp> well you're SEEING IT NOW
[03:47:36] <scromp> omg!
[03:47:41] <michaelshiloh> Well hello there scromp
[03:47:55] <scromp> hey what's up?
[03:48:02] <bones_was_here> lol people often talk in here
[03:48:14] <scromp> i have just got done soldering a bunch of crap so i'm kind of winding down
[03:48:22] <michaelshiloh> bringing up my new beagleboardxm.
[03:48:28] <scromp> it makes me tense
[03:48:44] <michaelshiloh> gotta relax those shoulders after soldering
[03:49:13] <scromp> it really is the shoulders, isn't it?
[03:49:50] <michaelshiloh> indeed. especially the fine pitch surface mount stuff.
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[03:51:31] <michaelshiloh> how can i find out what packages are available for installation with opkg?
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[03:59:31] <multiplex> opkg list
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[04:11:52] <kguilbert> if you do an opkg upgrade, do you get upgraded to the cutting edge, or do you just get maintenance and security updates?
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[04:26:59] <michaelshiloh> thanks
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[04:27:46] <michaelshiloh> i'm looking for a command line, or at least text based, mail client.
[04:28:02] <michaelshiloh> half jokingly, should't beagle come with mutt?
[04:29:41] <kguilbert> http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/repo/?pkgname=mutt
[04:30:17] <kguilbert> don't know if that's up to date, but it should be there somewhere
[04:30:35] <michaelshiloh> i'm in heaven - thanks!
[04:36:01] <michaelshiloh> and i just found this: python-libgmail which should allow me to do just what i need
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[04:51:23] <multiplex> where is the bootloader config file ?
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[04:57:09] <multiplex> ok it's very different than grub
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[07:19:13] <carli2> hi
[07:19:24] <carli2> what is the amperage at the gpio pins?
[07:20:16] <bones_was_here> on the bone?
[07:20:21] * bones_was_here would also like to know this
[07:20:22] <carli2> beagle xm
[07:20:47] <carli2> i think i need it to correctly calculate the circuit
[07:22:40] <av500CDGS> carli2: there is a data sheet to read
[07:23:09] <carli2> av500CDGS: yes, but what to search for? i searched for "amperage", but only one hit.
[07:23:11] <bones_was_here> the bone's sheet doesn't seem to mention gpio current
[07:23:22] <carli2> i searched for "gpio", but no amperage info
[07:25:59] <carli2> the section about the expansion header also does not give any info
[07:26:34] <LetoThe2nd> usually such things are found in the specs section, maximum ratings or sich. and its not called amperage, its called amximum current. see the TRM, not the beagleXYZ manual :)
[07:27:39] <tomba> I think OMAP DM, not TRM, contains electrical info
[07:27:40] <carli2> the transistor i want to use has an I_B of 20mA. does the beagleboard handle this?
[07:29:55] <carli2> :o that's weird, that must be wrong
[07:35:58] <Russ> Its the one that says "applications processor" I think
[07:36:23] <Russ> Table 2-1. Ball Characteristics
[07:36:34] <Russ> "buffer strength (mA)"
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[07:36:56] <Russ> I have a feb 2009 revision for the omap3530/25
[07:38:39] <Russ> looks like 4mA or 8mA depending on the gpio
[07:39:24] <Russ> carli2, either put in another stage, or use a different type of component
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[07:40:03] <Russ> carli2, is I_B some kind of absolute maximum rating, or the amount of current you actually expect to need?
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[07:40:36] <carli2> Russ: I want to control a motor and I'm wondering how to calculate the resistors for a circuit containing an npn transistor
[07:41:11] <Russ> I would be conservative and assume a drive strength of 2mA
[07:41:42] <carli2> Russ: the wires are: gpio-resistor1-base, emmitter-resistor2-ground, motorbattery-motor-collector
[07:42:48] <carli2> Russ: the voltage from base to emmiter is 0.8V, and the gpio has 1.8V. how do I calculate R1 and R2?
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[07:44:18] <Russ> carli2, I don't have time, but its pretty easy to find the equations that let you solve that
[07:44:41] <carli2> Russ: yes, but I'm missing some values and I dont know what
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[07:45:29] <carli2> Russ: or can I use R1=1000kR and R2=100R and it works?
[07:45:57] <Russ> plug in the values and find out what the equations say
[07:46:15] <Russ> the datasheet should provide any missing information
[07:46:21] <Russ> (of the transistor)
[07:46:33] <LetoThe2nd> oO( ask your laboringenieur :P )
[07:46:58] <carli2> I don't know what values in the datasheet are relevant. i never read a transistor datasheet
[07:47:51] <Russ> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipolar_junction_transistor (check the external links on the bottom)
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[07:53:04] <carli2> when there is "Base Current Ib=20mA", what does this mean? is that the max amperage or what exactly.....
[07:53:38] <carli2> Ic=100mA, but Ie=-100mA. but the equations say Ie=Ib+Ic
[07:53:50] <carli2> that makes no sense
[07:54:43] <carli2> Russ: there are lots of formulas in the wiki, but none of them uses one of the symbols defined in the data sheet
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[07:54:51] <adj> what kind of a motor do you plan to use?
[07:55:00] <ds2> wtf
[07:55:07] <ds2> what's the Beta?
[07:55:10] <carli2> bell-armature motor
[07:55:17] <ds2> and what configuration?
[07:55:39] <ds2> Molls Ebbers should suffice
[07:55:40] <carli2> ds2: what does "configuration" in your context mean?
[07:55:51] <ds2> configuration of the transistors
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[07:56:23] <Russ> carli2, are you looking at maximum ratings?
[07:57:00] <carli2> Russ: I want a simple circuit which lets me control the bell-armature motor
[07:57:16] <carli2> and I don't have the datasheet of the motor.
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[07:57:47] * LetoThe2nd still smells homework.
[07:57:54] <carli2> :o
[07:58:01] <ds2> how much current would you like to drive the motor with?
[07:58:46] <ds2> what kind of control do you want? does it need to reverse?
[07:58:58] <ds2> and how are you handling braking/reverse emi?
[07:59:02] <carli2> ds2: I don't know. I have a motor from a heli and I want the motor to work. it dosen't need to reverse
[07:59:23] <ds2> prehaps you should find out
[07:59:23] <adj> one npn connected to a gpio for controlling a motor, well that's doomed
[07:59:45] <carli2> I braking = echo 0 > /sys/class/gpio/gpio139/value
[07:59:45] <adj> won't work and will break your beagle
[08:00:14] <carli2> how should I do it correctly?
[08:00:22] <adj> really depends on the motor
[08:00:35] <carli2> the motor is made for 3V
[08:01:26] <adj> very small motor with thin leads? i.e. small currents?
[08:01:37] <carli2> the diameter of the motor is <2mm
[08:01:53] <adj> ok, that's small :)
[08:02:07] <carli2> 3mm, sorry
[08:03:16] <adj> a piezo motor perhaps?
[08:03:35] <carli2> no, bell-armature
[08:06:25] <carli2> i drawed a circuit
[08:06:43] <carli2> http://botwars.tk/motor.png
[08:07:03] <carli2> the GPIO is on the left site
[08:07:15] <carli2> the motor should get a own power supply
[08:07:26] <carli2> and I need to calculate R1 and R2
[08:08:12] <Russ> if you don't know much about motors and transistors, just get an h-bridge chip
[08:08:14] <carli2> this is the transistor: http://www.produktinfo.conrad.com/datenblaetter/150000-174999/155785-da-01-en-TRANSISTOR_BC547B_TO92.pdf
[08:09:24] <carli2> would a operational amplifier help, too?
[08:09:34] <Russ> carli2, you need to learn to read datasheets, since you don't seem to be familiar with "absolute maximum ratings"
[08:10:00] <Russ> http://www.sparkfun.com/tutorials/223
[08:10:04] <ds2> transistors are fine fuses
[08:10:05] <ds2> :)
[08:10:05] <adj> seems that those bell-armature motors are so small that almost anything will do for driving those
[08:10:32] <carli2> Russ: I know. but how to learn? the stuff i learned in university was never deep enough to build such things on my own
[08:10:38] <adj> ds2: they are also nice fireworks sometimes :)
[08:10:56] <Russ> carli2, there are plenty of guides on the internet for learning how to read a datasheet, and vendors have them too
[08:11:54] <Russ> http://www.analog.com/static/imported-files/rarely_asked_questions/moreInfo_raq_datasheet.html
[08:12:15] <Russ> this stuff is really easy to find if you are looking and will give you a whole lot of power to do things
[08:12:20] <carli2> http://botwars.tk/motor.png <- are there some values for R1 and R2 I can use that cannot break the beagleboard?
[08:12:40] <ds2> get a spice model and just try different values til it looks right
[08:12:43] <carli2> and do R1, R2 have to be that exactly? Or can they differ?
[08:13:41] <ds2> that is not recommended if you want to have it work for long.
[08:14:00] <ds2> back emf needs to be accounted for
[08:14:30] <carli2> do I have to know more about the motor than that it's not made for voltages above 3V?
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[08:15:05] <ds2> you generally want to know how much current it needs
[08:15:24] <carli2> I could measure it.
[08:15:30] <ds2> then you figure out if you have enough gain so you can determine if you need a darlington
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[08:15:44] <ds2> you need the peak value
[08:16:42] <carli2> the darlington looks easy. it only has one resistor.
[08:17:56] <carli2> well, the GPIO has 1.8V or 0V; what exactly can break the beagleboard? (the motor will get it's own batteries)
[08:19:00] <Ceriand|desktop> carli2: i would use a fet rather than a bjt for that
[08:19:31] <Russ> carli2, back emf
[08:20:42] <carli2> Ceriand|desktop: GPIO to gate, drain to ground, source to motor, motor to power supply; does this work?
[08:20:58] <kblin> carli2: a motor isn't quite working like a plain resitive load
[08:21:22] <Ceriand|desktop> carli2: use a n-fet, source to ground, drain to motor, motor to +3V
[08:21:36] <adj> are we talking about a motor something like this?
[08:21:38] <adj> http://www.sol-expert-group.de/Zonne-motoren/Zonne-motoren/::599.html?XTCsid=003c41ae7adeba88c9563593dc898c74
[08:21:54] <carli2> adj: correct.
[08:22:12] <Ceriand|desktop> carli2: and if the back-emf you're expecting is too large for the body diode in the fet, use an external diode
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[08:23:56] <adj> 15 mA for starting current and the diameter of that is double than yours? Calculate R1, move R2 to the collector side and experiment with the value of R2 :)
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[08:24:40] <adj> and add a diode across the motor
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[08:32:02] <carli2> Ceriand|desktop: http://botwars.tk/motor2.png <- is that correct?
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[08:33:50] <ds2> transconductance is a little less clear then beta
[08:34:15] <Ceriand|desktop> carli2: looks ok, if you're planning on pwm'ing the motor, I'd add a series resistor to the gate of the fet to limit the current from the BB
[08:36:10] <carli2> Ceriand|desktop: http://botwars.tk/motor2.png
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[08:40:02] <carli2> Ceriand|desktop: the resistor should not matter that much, dosen't it? I'll take 1k??. so I'll buy the diode, the resistor and the n-fet :)
[08:40:48] <Ceriand|desktop> carli2: yea, you only really need it if you're doing pwm, and it doesn't have to be too big either
[08:40:59] <carli2> Ceriand|desktop: I want to do pwm ;)
[08:41:18] <Ceriand|desktop> 1k will probably be ok
[08:41:18] <av500> with a gpio?
[08:41:21] <carli2> well, what happens if it's too big? 100?? should work, too?
[08:41:36] <carli2> av500 there are three GPIO that have pwm, too.
[08:41:46] * aholler_ is now known as aholler
[08:41:49] <Ceriand|desktop> carli2: check the datasheet for the max current
[08:41:53] <carli2> (but I didn't find the folder in /sys/class to control it
[08:42:21] <carli2> Ceriand|desktop: the n-fet has treshold voltage min 0.8V, max 3.0V. that should fit the GPIO's 1.8V
[08:42:23] <Ceriand|desktop> carli2: for hw pwm you'll need to get/write a kernel module if you're using linux
[08:42:40] <av500> carli2: right
[08:42:54] <Ceriand|desktop> carli2: make sure the Rds_on is low enough for your application at 1.8 Vgs
[08:43:03] <av500> Ceriand|desktop: nah, /dev/mem will do :)
[08:43:21] <carli2> arent there driver files for the timers?
[08:43:37] <Ceriand|desktop> carli2: there was a GSoC project for a kernel pwm driver, dunno how far it got though
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[08:46:29] <av500> Ceriand|desktop: it was usable afaik
[08:46:43] <av500> http://elinux.org/BeagleBoardPWM
[08:47:02] <carli2> Ceriand|desktop: are you sure that source has to go to ground? the data sheets tell me the other way around
[08:47:06] <av500> ah, and it does /dev/mem :)
[08:47:57] <av500> ah no, that is not the GSOC
[08:48:08] <av500> here is the gsoc:http://elinux.org/BeagleBoard/GSoC/2010_Projects/Pulse_Width_Modulation
[08:48:12] <av500> proper kernel module
[08:49:19] <Ceriand|desktop> carli2: http://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/transistor/tran_7.html
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[08:55:15] <carli2> well, the motor needs at least 16 khz to do proper pwm. so I should rather use hw pwm. or do you thing, the scheduler is exact enough to allow a 16khz pwm?
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[11:09:55] <eagle> Hi Everyone! Has anyone ever tried to control a USB Relay from linux command line?
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[11:10:42] <LetoThe2nd> not yet, we're still busy getting down on metaquestions. :=
[11:11:11] <av500> eagle: anyone ever?
[11:12:06] <av500> LetoThe2nd: you did anything with DMX512 yet?
[11:12:13] <av500> (I guess you did of course)
[11:12:31] <LetoThe2nd> av500: lots, but not on linux
[11:13:01] <av500> LetoThe2nd: I fail to understand why a usb2dmx is more than $10
[11:13:10] <av500> one FTDI and one 485 tx
[11:13:22] <av500> and one 120ohm R
[11:13:50] <eagle> I have the relay at /dev/ttyUSB0, and i tried use this command: echo -e '\xff\x01\x01' > /dev/ttyUSB0
[11:13:54] <eagle> but doesnt work
[11:14:03] <LetoThe2nd> av500: not because of the hardware, probably because of the lower numbers. its not completely plain rs485 IIRC
[11:14:15] <av500> it says its rs485 electrical
[11:14:33] <av500> eagle: does it work on your linux PC?
[11:15:00] <LetoThe2nd> av500: electrical, yes. but there was something with some control line or switching off bus voltage... lmgtfy
[11:16:41] * dENNES1 is now known as dENNES
[11:19:19] <LetoThe2nd> av500: see the timing diagram at http://www.soundlight.de/techtips/dmx512/dmx512.htm, section daten. i think getting the timing right including markers was why its not just byte-oriented rs485.
[11:19:36] <LetoThe2nd> but might be alzheimer, of course.
[11:19:44] <av500> LetoThe2nd: 485 does not define bytes
[11:19:48] <av500> as I understand it
[11:19:53] <av500> only electrical
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[11:20:41] <LetoThe2nd> av500: yes, but when you use a standard ftdi as the uart, it will behave byte-oriented :)
[11:21:04] <av500> LetoThe2nd: yes, but I plan to use the bitbang mode :)
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[11:21:30] <LetoThe2nd> av500: banging bits hard & fast should work AFAIK :)
[11:21:43] <av500> LetoThe2nd: I guess that means no std dmx sw will work with my contraption :)
[11:22:00] <av500> I will have vendor lock-in :)
[11:22:14] <LetoThe2nd> hrhr
[11:23:14] <av500> LetoThe2nd: btw, cheap LED PAR any good?
[11:23:32] <LetoThe2nd> av500: cheap LED PAR good, usually.
[11:23:54] <LetoThe2nd> PAR56 in most cases.
[11:24:10] <av500> what do the numbers mean anyway?
[11:24:47] <LetoThe2nd> type of lightbulb, AFAIK. like the GU stuff for consumer lights.
[11:25:00] <av500> ah
[11:25:12] <av500> I will look for LEDs with 56-type socket :)
[11:25:28] <LetoThe2nd> but became a synonym for size and shape of the par can.
[11:26:24] <LetoThe2nd> av500: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Par_can#Diameter
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[12:14:26] * av500 loves shopping free samples at TI website
[12:20:18] <jannau> PARxx is diameter in 1/8 inch
[12:20:39] * jannau still has a expensive usb2dmx
[12:21:16] <av500> schau schau
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[12:26:11] <jannau> but it has iirc a micro controller to hold the scene
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[12:29:01] <koen> hrm
[12:29:10] <koen> can't find my ip2dmx thing
[12:29:26] <koen> that had a usb port as well
[12:29:56] <jannau> found it, it has an atmega
[12:31:26] <av500> but the receivers already "hold", no?
[12:31:54] <LetoThe2nd> av500: no, not necessarily.
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[12:32:17] <av500> they go dark if they are not updated periodically?
[12:32:17] <LetoThe2nd> av500: usually the controller just writes out cyclic as fast as possible.
[12:32:27] <LetoThe2nd> av500: many go dark, yes.
[12:33:11] <koen> LetoThe2nd: I had to 'optimize' light setups in the past
[12:33:22] <koen> by keeping the addresses close
[12:33:39] <koen> e.g. 1, 2, 3, 4 is 8x faster than 1,2,3,32
[12:33:42] <av500> koen: ipv6 ftw....
[12:33:56] <av500> give each led on the planet and address
[12:34:00] <LetoThe2nd> koen: yes, because the controllers just write out one bulk from the first to thze last used address...
[12:34:13] <av500> LetoThe2nd: what else can they do?
[12:34:20] <av500> you cannot skip addresses, no?
[12:34:25] <LetoThe2nd> hence - less gaps, more speed.
[12:35:16] <LetoThe2nd> av500: they could just write out the few bytes to each device separately. but not sure if dmx supports that anyway. IIRC the packet always starts with address 0 or 1
[12:36:36] <av500> so it cannot be done
[12:36:56] <LetoThe2nd> might be. not sure.
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[12:40:01] <ant_work> koen: mumbling about a new meta-openembedded/meta-initramfs layer to host klibc + class + related static recipes. Thoughts?
[12:40:34] <ant_work> I'd even add kexecboot and linux-kexecboot there
[12:45:04] <koen> ant_work: sounds like a good idea
[12:45:29] <koen> ant_work: we could even move that to the oe-core repo (not layer) later on
[12:46:32] <ant_work> koen: ok, great. I'll send a msg to the list with the proposal and some patches. Thx.
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[13:44:35] <aj2903> hi i'm planning to buy beaglebone.I have some doubts : 1. Does ethernet cable is provided in the kit. 2.Is there any differences in ethernet cables. If yes which one should be used
[13:45:19] <koen> No, yes, it has auto-mdix so every cable should work
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[13:46:11] <aj2903> so it will work even with standalone PC,
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[13:46:30] <aj2903> network is not required ??
[13:48:33] <aj2903> ?
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[13:51:02] <aj2903> has anyone interface graphics LCD/ OLED with beaglebone ???
[13:51:42] <aj2903> can someone give suggestion which LCD/OLED beaglebone supports
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[13:57:45] <av500> tried google?
[14:01:14] <aj2903> yes, but my doubt is graphic lcd driver is pre-written linux ???
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[14:05:29] <av500> for some, yes
[14:06:03] <aj2903> how can we find this ???
[14:06:25] <av500> people have connected LCDs to the bone already
[14:06:33] <av500> if yours is similar, it might work
[14:06:43] <SilicaGel> I don't know which lcd/oled the beaglebone supports but the bone's processor uses the arm standard graphics adapter
[14:06:49] <SilicaGel> so from a software perspective it should work afaik
[14:06:52] <SilicaGel> I haven't actually tried it
[14:07:07] <koen> wtf is "arm standard graphics adapter"?
[14:07:07] <av500> https://www.google.com/search?q=beaglebone+lcd
[14:07:15] <SilicaGel> stand by and i'll tell you
[14:07:16] <av500> +1 wtf
[14:07:28] <av500> koen: its AGA vs VGA
[14:07:39] <SilicaGel> I'm quite certain that I called it totally the wrong thing
[14:07:42] <LetoThe2nd> koen: opposite of "leg unstandardized sound adapter"
[14:07:57] <av500> LetoThe2nd: s/adapter/converter/
[14:08:07] <LetoThe2nd> av500: my bad.
[14:08:19] <koen> http://elinux.org/Elc-lcd
[14:08:20] <av500> whats the opposite of an adaptor? a dedaptor?
[14:08:31] <koen> av500: no, daptor
[14:08:47] <koen> or prodaptor if you want to be explicit
[14:09:01] <LetoThe2nd> av500: HAVING KARTOFFELDRUCK DEV DAYS AGAIN IS BAD THE BRAINS, I NOTICE :/
[14:09:06] <av500> fiftyfaptor
[14:09:07] <LetoThe2nd> gnah.
[14:09:09] <dwery> koen: hi! is the latest angstrom precompiled image already can cape enabled?
[14:09:20] <SilicaGel> SGX530 graphics engine which implements PowerVR
[14:09:25] <SilicaGel> PowerVR is pretty f'ing standard
[14:09:31] <SilicaGel> but not to arm so i was both wrong and ... slightly less wrong
[14:09:37] <av500> SilicaGel: yes, but it does not talk to LCDs
[14:09:45] <av500> all it does is to write into a piece of memory
[14:09:57] <SilicaGel> yeah, that memory belongs to the LCDC controller right
[14:10:34] <koen> dwery: the one I sent to the factory yes, need to upload that to the proper place
[14:10:58] <dwery> koen: nice. I'll add a link on the user's manual when it's ready
[14:11:01] <av500> so mentioning sgx does not help to futher the narrative
[14:11:05] <dwery> do you have a temp link?
[14:11:12] <av500> /tmp/dfsksdfhhfjk
[14:11:18] <av500> work for me
[14:11:25] <dwery> :D
[14:11:38] <SilicaGel> I was responding to this: <aj2903> yes, but my doubt is graphic lcd driver is pre-written linux ???
[14:11:45] <av500> yes
[14:11:54] <av500> lcd driver != 3d engine
[14:12:22] <SilicaGel> oh SGX ONLY provides 3D? I see
[14:12:30] <av500> yes
[14:12:34] <SilicaGel> I'm not really a graphics guy so maybe I should shut up then.
[14:13:15] <SilicaGel> I do know that the LCD interface on the beaglebone takes up a *load of pins
[14:13:29] <SilicaGel> so if you need a lot of serial ports, etc. then that's a problem :(
[14:14:59] <aj2903> has any person in the present chat has interface LCD with beaglebone/begleboard??
[14:17:26] <aj2903> av500, SilicaGel, koen thanks for the discussion, but i don't seem to get u all
[14:17:31] <aj2903> :(
[14:17:45] <av500> aj2903: yes, some people have connected an LCD
[14:18:10] <av500> did you even look at the google results?
[14:18:13] <koen> aj2903: like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KAD_Oqpi14 ?
[14:18:46] * av500 watches koen doing his morning jog....
[14:21:09] <aj2903> koen thanks, but where can we get LCD details
[14:22:15] <av500> do you have the LCD or not?
[14:22:25] <av500> the one you want to connect?
[14:23:07] <aj2903> no, i'm planning to buy which supports beaglebone
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[14:24:27] <aj2903> av500, any suggestion which LCD to buy ???
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[14:39:00] <av500> koen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWYn5wJ72zY&feature=youtu.be
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[14:44:41] <koen> nice
[14:44:46] <koen> albeit $$$$$
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[15:20:31] <arcanescu> how to check if the kernel has NEON support enabled?
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[15:26:32] <wmat> arcanescu: http://www.linux-arm.org/LinuxKernel/LinuxNEON
[15:27:32] <arcanescu> wmat: im using the kernel which came with the beagle's sd... how can i check if it already has neon enabled
[15:27:41] <arcanescu> or would you know if it doesnt....
[15:28:34] <av500> it should
[15:28:40] <av500> does neon fail for you?
[15:28:50] <wmat> arcanescu: grep the config file for NEON
[15:30:06] <arcanescu> av500: no... i just dont know if its enabled or not.... im just starting off with it
[15:34:58] <arcanescu> wmat: by default its enabled so ... i guess it is thanks..
[15:35:35] <wmat> arcanescu: some useful info here http://elinux.org/BeagleBoard#ARM_NEON
[15:36:43] <SilicaGel> I had a disussion with someone on here a while ago that talked about the relationship between VFPv3 and NEON and the fact that they share certain pieces
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[15:37:20] <av500> SilicaGel: they do
[15:37:22] <SilicaGel> I gathered from there that "turning it on" was really a matter of setting the right compiler flags to generate code for it ...
[15:37:28] <SilicaGel> Is that right?
[15:37:29] <thurbad> try omafbplay, that uses neon, and usually works on the default angstrom setup
[15:37:31] <av500> yes
[15:37:45] <av500> there is also some bit in the actual arm core to enable neon on the CPU
[15:38:46] <arcanescu> wmat: thanks.... setting the compiler flag should allow generating the code for it correcT?
[15:38:49] <arcanescu> *t
[15:39:04] <SilicaGel> Well, not if what av500 says means that it's not "turned on" first (??)
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[15:41:00] <av500> it should
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[15:41:16] <av500> i doubt there is any recent kernel that does not do it
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[15:56:50] <aholler> was that a question at arm bof? support for neon come from the compiler, the kernel doesn't care.
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[16:05:31] <aholler> arcanescu: if in doubt: grep neon /proc/cpuinfo
[16:06:13] <aholler> but that doesn't mean that your linux already uses it.
[16:07:01] <av500> my kernel is so much faster since I enabled neon on it
[16:08:00] <koen> we had a good laugh about the phoronix benchmarks
[16:08:09] <koen> integer ops go faster with hardfloat and all
[16:08:17] <aholler> and speed advancments up to 40% are not possible through hardfloat, just when comparing apples and oranges ;)
[16:08:43] <aholler> like debian seems to do
[16:09:00] <koen> armv4t vs armv7a-hf
[16:09:25] <aholler> yes, braindead
[16:10:18] <SilicaGel> -HF ?!?! What's that??
[16:10:23] <av500> koen: watch the ARM bof and observe what I asked the arm guy :)
[16:10:37] <koen> SilicaGel: hypefloat
[16:10:39] <koen> ehm
[16:10:40] <koen> I mean
[16:10:42] <koen> hardfloat
[16:10:59] <koen> av500: ELC-E armbof?
[16:11:03] <av500> yes
[16:11:04] <av500> no
[16:11:07] <av500> fosdem
[16:11:30] <SilicaGel> I'm trying to figure out the minimum source impedance to drive the bone's A/D and get decent linearity and accuracy, and I am angry at the TRM.
[16:11:43] <av500> the TRM shrugs I guess
[16:13:11] <arcanescu> aholler: thanks!
[16:13:39] <aholler> here are some benchmark results I've done: http://groups.google.com/group/beagleboard/browse_thread/thread/8a02388772a1d177
[16:13:45] <koen> the trm is like the cake in portal
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[16:34:27] <robinswan> Are there any simple way to test beagleboad audio system? In kernel 2.6.28, I just use `cat /dev/urandom > /dev/dsp`, but In kernel 2.6.39, this way don't work.
[16:35:47] <thurbad> why not just play an audio clip with mplayer or aplay
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[16:40:37] <robinswan> how to use aplay to test with media file such as *.mp3 or *.wav ?
[16:41:13] <robinswan> mplayer is so large footprint to test.
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[16:45:27] <carli2> robinswan: why does the player you want to use have to have a small footprint?
[16:46:20] <carli2> robinswan: btw you can play raw files with aplay
[16:47:13] <carli2> robinswan: aplay /dev/urandom
[16:47:39] <robinswan> carli2: thanks! I will try. :)
[16:49:28] <thurbad> aplay -f cd <filename>
[16:49:50] <thurbad> urandom could sound pretty nasty
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[16:51:48] <robinswan> Another question, Angstrom-2010.x use the kernel 2.6.39, it cause my DVI monitor blank.
[16:52:26] <robinswan> I find /sys/class/display is empty dirctory.
[16:56:19] <robinswan> Some document tell me set OMAP DSS output to DVI, use `echo 'tv' > /sys/class/display_control/omap_disp_control`, in kernel 2.6.39, I can not find this driver config entry.
[16:57:18] <thurbad> tv would be the svideo, don't think that's what you want
[16:58:33] <robinswan> Sorry!, I want use `echo 'lcd' > /sys/class/display_control/omap_disp_control` to set DSS output to DVI.
[17:02:33] <thurbad> does it not show anything over the dvi port with a hdmi to dvi-d cable?
[17:03:13] <carli2> thurbad: where did you get the sd image from?
[17:03:32] <robinswan> yes, but the video output of u-boot is work.
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[17:04:21] <thurbad> I got my initial image from narcissus/angstrom
[17:05:21] <robinswan> I use x11-image of angstrom build by `bitbake x11-image`.
[17:05:27] <carli2> thurbad: the online builder did not work for me. I used the sd image shipped with the board and modify it
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[17:09:03] <thurbad> the version that shipped with my xM was booted to a ramdisk
[17:09:25] <thurbad> my C4 didn't ship with any images
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[17:10:19] <robinswan> Kernel 2.6.39 cause my standard monitor via DVI port, but in my DIY LCD driver board, video work :).
[17:11:44] <robinswan> cause my starndar monitor blanking.
[17:12:13] <thurbad> oh, you mean it goes to sleep after a while, but it works initially?
[17:13:43] <robinswan> yes. in standard monitor sleep after u-boot video output.
[17:13:59] <thurbad> oh... it shouldn't sleep that soon :/
[17:14:33] <thurbad> do you have the dvimode set in a mode that your monitor supports?
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[17:15:28] <robinswan> I comfirm set the DVI mode.
[17:17:26] <robinswan> but I have a LCD driver board, it can work u-boot and Linux.
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[17:26:34] <koen> Crofton|work: " another person was demonstrating an open-source GSM access point based on USRP"
[17:27:05] <Crofton|work> I saw that
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[17:32:06] <ds2> koen: OE list?
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[17:35:34] <koen> ds2: free-electrons on the ELC demo night
[17:36:06] <koen> prpplague: did you notice the reference to dutch cheese on the latest drunk kitchen?
[17:36:17] <koen> "was it gouda for you as well?"
[17:36:29] <ds2> oh
[17:36:32] <prpplague> koen: hehe, no i have had a chance to watch it yet
[17:37:25] <prpplague> koen: a bunch of the folks who attended ELC got a flu like bug over the weekend
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[17:38:23] <prpplague> koen: my flight was overbooked, i volunteered to take a later flight and got a $900 voucher plus seat upgrade to first-class, hehe
[17:39:05] <mdp> lucky!
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[17:39:36] <mdp> on my red-eye home I was next in line for an upgrade :(
[17:39:40] <koen> lucky indeed
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[17:40:04] <koen> prpplague: I had the flu like bug before ELC, so I guess I was immume
[17:40:19] <prpplague> naw, luck was that the bar was directly across from the departure gate, and they had a good selection of brew....
[17:40:31] <prpplague> koen: or you were the carrier
[17:40:40] <mdp> typhoid koen
[17:40:42] * sakoman__ was one of those stricken with weekend flu :-(
[17:40:47] <prpplague> git blame
[17:41:34] <mdp> I will claim that us northern cold dwelling folks must be from hardier stock :)
[17:42:03] <prpplague> hehe, or with it was a northern strain
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[17:43:29] <ATP> does anyone know how i can change my dvimode? I tried uenv.txt already...
[17:43:51] <ATP> screen goes flickering up and down.. i use hdmi cable
[17:43:58] * jkridner__ (~jason@pdpc/supporter/active/jkridner) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[17:48:00] <thurbad> ATP what did you set in uEnv.txt
[17:50:26] * ATP (5ce83e4c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.232.62.76) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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[17:50:59] <arcanescu_> rage quit !
[17:51:24] <ATP> if anyone answered please say again my browser crashed >.<
[17:51:30] <arcanescu_> ATP pastebin your uenv.txt
[17:51:37] <ATP> kk
[17:51:58] <koen> 27and what does fbset say after booting?
[17:53:18] <ds2> prpplague: american?
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[17:54:20] <koen> prpplague: the international terminal is not bad either, the beer&pizza place overlookes the farrest terminals
[17:54:30] <prpplague> ds2: yea
[17:54:41] <prpplague> ds2: american airlines
[17:54:51] <ds2> prpplague: isn't that at risk of being wiped out with the whole bankruptcy thing they are in?
[17:54:58] <prpplague> ds2: naw
[17:55:11] <ATP> arcanescu_ pastebin.com/i6j64RPm
[17:55:14] <prpplague> ds2: pretty much all the airlines have gone through it
[17:55:45] <thurbad> I think american is mostly trying to break union contracts with their restructuring
[17:55:54] <prpplague> thurbad: exactly
[17:55:58] <jay69811> thats just a way for the execs to stick it to the shareholders and creditors while they bail out in their golden parachutes
[17:56:06] <jay69811> oh, and the employees
[17:56:06] <prpplague> thurbad: they have been beat to death with the unions
[17:57:13] * jpirko (~jirka@ip-89-102-207-41.net.upcbroadband.cz) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[17:57:27] <prpplague> koen: just got the first of the animal-lvds-mini pre-production boards
[17:57:48] <koen> nice
[17:58:24] <prpplague> koen: trying to decide if we should offer it as a kit with the Pixel-Qi
[18:00:52] <arcanescu_> ATP: dvimode="1024x768MR-16@60 omapfb.vram=0:8M,1:4M,2:4M" this is what comes with default BeagleXM
[18:01:39] <koen> prpplague: it would be a nice gimmick
[18:01:59] <prpplague> koen: don't think it would sell?
[18:02:07] <ATP> arcanescu_ ok I'll give it a go, even though i should say i have RevC4
[18:02:32] <arcanescu_> same
[18:03:41] <koen> prpplague: it would, since those screens are $&*#$&*#%&* hard to get
[18:03:53] <mdp> prpplague, already I have high praise for flyswatter2, the case nicely contrasts with all the gray/black things on the bench such that I can find it
[18:05:19] <koen> prpplague: I had a meeting with their VP of engineering last ELC
[18:05:29] <koen> prpplague: incidentally about LVDS boards and beagles as well
[18:05:51] <koen> prpplague: I gave him a short into into DSS2 and panel.c files
[18:06:13] * Crofton|work has congestion
[18:06:57] <ATP> arcanescu_ its still flickering ://
[18:08:10] * koen points to fbset remark
[18:08:12] <thurbad> if your monitor is widescreen you may want to try 1280x720MR-24@60
[18:08:23] <arcanescu_> oh yea... that was for my monitor
[18:08:36] <arcanescu_> sorry
[18:08:38] <ATP> arcanescu_ ah ok will try this then
[18:09:42] <ATP> my monitor is Horizontal resolution (Pixels) 1366 Vertical resolution (Pixels) 768 btw
[18:09:48] <prpplague> mdp: hehe dandy!
[18:09:55] <prpplague> mdp: exact reason we choose that color
[18:10:06] <ATP> so try this maybe?
[18:10:09] <prpplague> koen: ahh interesting
[18:10:18] <thurbad> don't think beagle support that high of a res on C4
[18:10:34] <ATP> k
[18:14:35] <ATP> nothing still .... maybe i should mention that no matter what i change the resolution goes to 1024x768 , 60hz and flickers like a demon
[18:15:14] <ATP> works fine at my neighbor's monitor but flickers on mine :S
[18:18:24] <ATP> any suggestions??
[18:18:40] <ATP> why does partition 2 state ro , shouldnt that be rw?
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[18:21:11] <thurbad> whould be rw, yeah
[18:21:14] <thurbad> should
[18:21:28] <ATP> ok changing
[18:21:37] <thurbad> check it in a host pc with e2fsck
[18:21:59] <thurbad> if it's corrupted it will load as ro
[18:23:28] <ATP> pf still not working
[18:23:30] <ATP> ok will do
[18:23:53] <ATP> do you think i should use boot.scr instead?
[18:24:27] <thurbad> if you have an older u-boot it looks in boot.scr, not uEnv.txt for environment configuration
[18:31:03] <ATP> ok but i think its new because its ubuntu 11.10
[18:33:35] <ATP> actually no, its 12.04 alpha 2
[18:37:19] <aholler> cat /proc/cmdline
[18:39:38] <mdp> prpplague, need to play a bit with the am37x-evm I started with..fell back to the xM since it's known working..and have control of the a8 happily..resume never gets me to the point where u-boot is loaded though
[18:40:24] <mdp> prpplague, but I am happily stepping around romcode before that
[18:40:38] <mdp> but, this is on tip of openocd tree, just wondering how well that worked
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[18:52:43] <ATP> aholler kk will check
[18:54:38] <prpplague> mdp: oh dandy!!
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[19:41:08] <scromp> is it just me or could the FTDI drivers on osx be a little smarter?
[19:45:54] <ATP> was wondering can I manually edit boot.scr with gedit or something?
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[19:48:51] <thurbad> ATP no
[19:49:09] <ATP> ahh ok :/
[19:49:14] <mdp> scromp, what level of intelligence would you like?
[19:49:15] <thurbad> you can edit the base file in gedit, but the header needs to be regenerated
[19:49:48] <thurbad> the header is generated with the mkimage utility
[19:49:55] <ATP> so how can i edit it without affecting the header?
[19:49:58] <ATP> oh i see
[19:50:27] * gdm_ (~gdm@186.19.75.44) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[19:50:27] <thurbad> just take the text portion and save it in a new text file
[19:51:01] <ATP> and then how will i put it back?
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[19:51:51] <thurbad> mkimage -A arm -O linux -T script -C none -a 0 -e 0 -n 'Execute uImage.bin' -d <sourcefile name> boot.scr
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[19:52:19] <thurbad> put the name of your text file in where source filename is
[19:52:39] <thurbad> I save that at the top of my text file in case I forget the command
[19:52:52] <thurbad> which I always do
[19:53:12] <scromp> mdp: i have three sets of conflicting ftdi drivers for beagle, arduino, and the bloody ftdi serial cable
[19:53:14] <thurbad> just add a # before it so uboot sees it as a comment
[19:53:28] <scromp> i have to reinstall whichever one i need to talk to a given device every time
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[19:54:43] <ATP> thurbad thanks
[19:55:41] * CMoH (~cipi@unaffiliated/c-moh) Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[19:55:49] <thurbad> ATP n/p
[19:55:59] <mdp> scromp, multiple pid mod is not sufficient or something else?
[19:58:24] <scromp> first i've heard of it, please elaborate!
[19:59:24] <koen> prpplague: I tempted fate and lost
[19:59:35] <prpplague> koen: ??
[19:59:40] <koen> prpplague: I attended your talk and now I have to debug an lcd board
[20:00:40] <prpplague> koen: HA
[20:00:55] <prpplague> hey can someone check out this video? http://youtu.be/KoSt1VP5kVY
[20:01:06] <prpplague> i don't have speakers to listen to it setup
[20:01:23] <prpplague> they keep talking about raspberry pi, but show pandaboards
[20:01:58] <arcanescu_> there are videos of raspeberry pi on youtube where they show it
[20:02:24] <prpplague> arcanescu_: yes i know
[20:02:25] <thurbad> have the raspberry pi's been released to the public?
[20:02:29] <arcanescu_> i dont have faith in raspberry pi's anyway
[20:02:31] <arcanescu_> no it hasnt
[20:02:43] <arcanescu_> theyere website says it has gone into manufacturing
[20:03:09] <arcanescu_> *it they*
[20:03:17] <thurbad> doubt they'll be open sourcing the design anyway
[20:03:21] <Crofton|work> prpplague, madness
[20:03:32] <arcanescu_> they wont...
[20:03:42] * prpplague finds a set of head phones to listen
[20:04:03] <thurbad> that makes it little other than a curiosity to me
[20:04:03] <arcanescu_> apparently there is alot of hype about it
[20:04:15] <arcanescu_> i even tried ebay
[20:04:19] <jay6981> looks like pandaboard is part of their build system
[20:04:27] <jay6981> or test playform
[20:04:28] <thurbad> yeah a consultant suggested we look into it to cut costs
[20:04:33] * tasslehoff (~tasslehof@145.79-161-31.customer.lyse.net) has joined #beagle
[20:04:39] <arcanescu_> apparently they had an auction where they sold the liek 4-5 of them and they cost like 2000 pounds or somethng
[20:04:40] <koen> prpplague: jkridner and came up with a name for our next board: avocado's number
[20:05:14] <thurbad> because it is significantly less than our board that was partially based on the beagle
[20:05:34] <LetoThe2nd> koen: hrhrhrhrhr
[20:06:03] <thurbad> avagadro rolls over in his grave
[20:06:09] <arcanescu_> i was also suggested the same to look into raspberry to cut costs.... something like : It would be intresting to see if it runs ont he raspberry pi
[20:06:26] <arcanescu_> followed by a uncomfortable *wink*
[20:06:45] <mdp> according to fedora philosophy all s/w should be built natively
[20:07:04] * panto (~panto@195.97.110.117) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[20:07:12] <thurbad> were looking at upping our processing power, not staying at 720MHz for the next board rev
[20:09:12] * bgamari (~ben@pool-96-233-179-97.spfdma.east.verizon.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[20:09:35] <prpplague> hehe, funny, so they are talking about raspberry pi, but showing pictures of panda's in their build rack
[20:10:02] <mru> the rpi probably can't even build its own boot loader
[20:10:04] <Crofton|work> the pandas are better for compiling
[20:10:12] * Crofton|work is not making this up
[20:10:16] <mru> intel i7 are even better for compiling
[20:10:25] <arcanescu_> i7 agreed
[20:10:26] <Crofton|work> yes
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[20:11:07] <koen> mru: I argued that point at ELC
[20:11:09] <Crofton|work> Linaro is trying to figure out cross compling, but I sense madness in some of their ideas
[20:11:10] <ds2> compilers are better for compiling ;)
[20:11:23] <koen> mru: I can even prove it: intel is backing yocto to sell more i7s
[20:11:31] <Crofton|work> heh
[20:11:32] <mru> koen: :)
[20:11:32] * LetoThe2nd sings "can i play with madness..."
[20:11:38] * Crofton|work has been thinking the same thing
[20:11:51] <koen> LetoThe2nd: great, now that is stuck in my head
[20:11:56] <ds2> koen: at the cost of melting all ice on the planet?!
[20:11:58] <LetoThe2nd> *metal*
[20:12:07] <LetoThe2nd> koen: you're welcome
[20:12:11] <mru> melting all metal?
[20:12:18] <mru> global warming gone extreme?
[20:12:51] <LetoThe2nd> koen: look up "steel panther"... we've got tickets .)
[20:12:55] <koen> ds2: I think using pandas is worse, the storage links slows it down a lot -> more heat summed over time
[20:13:34] <koen> LetoThe2nd: oh dear
[20:14:13] <LetoThe2nd> koen: :P
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[20:18:19] <mranostay> when it gets to melting metal i think we don't have to worry :)
[20:18:48] <mru> you mean by the time it comes to melting metal we will be unable to worry
[20:19:11] * cyronin (4ca19da4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.161.157.164) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[20:19:41] <ds2> blah...need to find a USB DVD drive to install on a new laptop :(
[20:20:13] * Posterdati (~tapioca@host188-225-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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[20:20:51] * ATP (5ce83e4c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.232.62.76) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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[20:21:38] <_av500_> with hot glue?
[20:22:00] <mru> ah yes, all the glue will melt well before the metal does
[20:22:26] * dneary (~dneary@Maemo/community/docmaster/dneary) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[20:23:00] * marcheu (~marcheu@annarchy.freedesktop.org) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[20:24:05] <mranostay> mru: same difference
[20:24:28] <mru> nah, we'll just have to switch to screws
[20:25:18] <SilicaGel> x
[20:25:55] <_av500_> that T-X Terminatrice proved that molten metal can look hot
[20:26:02] <LetoThe2nd> am i the only one who thinks that this linker file http://balau82.wordpress.com/2011/09/03/using-codesourcery-bare-metal-toolchain-for-cortex-m3/ is just plain ugly?
[20:26:32] <_av500_> I find even the main.c ugly
[20:26:45] <LetoThe2nd> _av500_: my newest pearl from the trash movie universe: bloodrayne 3 - the third reich :)
[20:26:56] <_av500_> is that a linker script or the XML definition of ELF?
[20:27:01] <SilicaGel> LetoThe2nd: it looks like a gcc/ld linker script to me
[20:27:05] <SilicaGel> that's just what they look like
[20:27:07] <SilicaGel> they're horrible
[20:27:43] <SilicaGel> I did a lot of MSP430 work way back when and I had to become intimiately familiar with these linker configuration scripts. It's been a few years now so I'm rusty. But that's generally what they look like.
[20:27:46] <LetoThe2nd> what abomination on earth of startup code needs such nonsense to link?!?
[20:28:04] <SilicaGel> well what specifically bothers you?
[20:28:34] <SilicaGel> just how much of it there is?
[20:28:52] <LetoThe2nd> SilicaGel: mostly that.
[20:28:54] <_av500_> int todo;
[20:28:58] <SilicaGel> ok
[20:29:22] <_av500_> the linker script for my bare metal sh-1 stuff is half a long
[20:29:24] <SilicaGel> So gcc will by defulat produce .text for code, maybe .data and .sdata and .bss sections, .rodata, and some other stuff
[20:29:26] <_av500_> and has stuff like overlays
[20:29:31] <SilicaGel> a crapload of it is debugging related
[20:29:44] <SilicaGel> most of what that thing is doing is stacking those sections into the right place
[20:30:16] <SilicaGel> and then a crapload of stuff relating to how to deal with and where to put debugging symbols and the like, for when it's targeting to a format like .ELF that supports those.
[20:31:06] <SilicaGel> anything that says PROVIDE is essentially creating a symbol for use by the actual software. Like crt0.s needs to know what the stack boundaries are, and it gets that from a PROVIDE normally, in the linker config file
[20:31:58] <LetoThe2nd> hmh.
[20:31:58] <SilicaGel> The sad thing is, when you link to something like .hex or .s19 or .bin half of that stuff just gets stripped out hehe.
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[20:32:26] <_av500_> what else would one link into anyway :)
[20:32:32] <SilicaGel> an .ELF!
[20:32:54] <_av500_> long blond hair and bow and arrow?
[20:33:27] <tasslehoff> Both udhcpc and pump are stealing my static ip addresses. Is there a proper way to tell them that I now have a static ip, and that they don't have to try renewing a dhcp lease?
[20:33:53] <SilicaGel> hmm are you thinking like Legolas ?
[20:34:14] <tasslehoff> my approach now is 'killall pump' :)
[20:34:24] <SilicaGel> I would have said Arwen, but that means going for the brunette
[20:34:44] <tasslehoff> long blond hair, bow and arrow also fits Link
[20:34:52] <tasslehoff> and link into Link sounds good
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[20:40:04] * Russ__ is now known as Russ
[20:40:10] <_av500_> a coworker has a friend who has long pale blond hair and looks like legolas. some time ago he asked us if we could receive a package for him coz he was away. lo and behold it was a longbow!
[20:40:37] <SilicaGel> that's very strange
[20:41:28] <SilicaGel> Did he say where he was going? Maybe Gondor?
[20:42:03] <_av500_> no, that was another, short guy with huge feet
[20:43:21] <djlewis> and a pesky ring
[20:43:31] <djlewis> or was that a pesky gollum
[20:50:29] <Russ> hairy feet, not huge feet
[20:51:04] <thurbad> large for their stature
[20:52:12] <ds2> big foot?
[20:56:11] <Crofton|work> http://theoatmeal.com/comics/game_of_thrones
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[20:58:54] <jay6981> there's gotta be a lot of cargo cult in that linker script
[21:00:25] <LetoThe2nd> mabye not even cargo cult, but linking in a s***load of those *cs3* symbols
[21:00:56] <jay6981> yeah, they should have just shown their own minimal library
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[21:02:04] <xenland> Any one know how many watts the BeagleBone will consume at maximum proccessing power? (with the power cable plugged in)
[21:02:13] <xenland> Any one know how many watts the BeagleBone will consume at maximum proccessing power? (with the power cable plugged in)
[21:02:29] * c4milo (~c4milo@66.43.64.66) Quit (Quit: c4milo)
[21:02:48] <viridari> xenland: the power supply will likely convert more electricity into heat than the board will consume.
[21:03:14] <thurbad> less than a desktop? :P
[21:03:50] <thurbad> probably depends on what capes/peripherals you have plugged in
[21:04:22] <xenland> lets say I'm just getting 100% website traffic no peripherals plugged in
[21:04:56] <jwinnebeck> We measured here I think about 250-300mA@5V
[21:04:59] <jwinnebeck> on the 5V adapter
[21:05:03] * Maxz (~felipe@pc-42-144-239-201.cm.vtr.net) has joined #beagle
[21:05:05] <jwinnebeck> the USB power will use 500mA
[21:05:27] <jwinnebeck> for some reason the USB power is a lot less efficient than the 5VDC adapter
[21:05:30] * NishanthMenon (~nmenon@192.91.66.186) has joined #beagle
[21:05:51] <jwinnebeck> there's not enough power to run the CPU at full speed, so it runs at 500mhz over USB
[21:05:51] <xenland> Makes sense
[21:06:28] <thurbad> maybe has to do with the standard amperage of usb?
[21:06:34] <koen> the ftdi takes a ton of power on the bone
[21:06:40] <jwinnebeck> well USB is limited to 500mA
[21:06:55] <jwinnebeck> really, I was just about the say that I can't imagine the FTDI is taking that much power???
[21:06:59] <jwinnebeck> is that really the reason?
[21:07:16] <jwinnebeck> If that's true then the FTDI is using about as much power as the whole rest of the board? That doesn't make sense to me
[21:08:26] <koen> 100mA or so
[21:09:04] <Maxz> at MaxPower 90mA
[21:09:11] <jwinnebeck> ... how is that possible, comparing a USB serial chip to the am335x?
[21:09:15] <Maxz> iManufacturer 1 FTDI
[21:09:15] <Maxz> iProduct 2 FT232R USB UART
[21:09:15] * _roger_ (~a0740758@nat/ti/x-tuzbkmilydemrwcz) has joined #beagle
[21:10:05] <jwinnebeck> OK so then when the bone is powered by the 5vdc connector and plugged into computer it is drawing power from both sources then
[21:10:08] <jwinnebeck> maybe
[21:10:23] <jwinnebeck> because we originally put the bone on a bench power supply
[21:10:29] <jwinnebeck> to get it to 720mhz
[21:10:52] <koen> Crofton|work: even the fake viagra adds are great in that comic
[21:11:37] * bgamari (~ben@72.19.95.77) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[21:11:46] <koen> jwinnebeck: the best answer we got from the hw team for the cpu and pmic about using 720mhz when powered by usb was "we don't know for certain"
[21:12:09] <jwinnebeck> oh ok
[21:12:10] <jwinnebeck> I see
[21:12:14] <jwinnebeck> I never measured USB current
[21:12:22] <jwinnebeck> But over the 5vdc, it is clearly under 500mA
[21:12:31] <jwinnebeck> if I recall it was normally 200-250
[21:12:42] <jwinnebeck> what surprised me is that I didn't hardly any drop for idle
[21:12:43] * tasslehoff finally googled to see what people in #beagle mean when they talk about capes
[21:12:49] <jwinnebeck> but I think I heard that cpu scaling is not implemented
[21:12:55] <jwinnebeck> is that true?
[21:14:13] <thurbad> dunno, it's cpu scaling on the beagle is enabled in a the kernel
[21:14:36] <koen> thurbad: I AM BATMAN!
[21:14:39] <koen> ehm
[21:14:42] <koen> tasslehoff:
[21:14:54] <thurbad> lol
[21:14:55] * koen calls alfred to fix tab completion
[21:15:02] <tasslehoff> :)
[21:15:26] <ynezz> or rather set hard limit on rum usage :p
[21:15:28] <Russ> even batman shouldn't dereference null pointers
[21:16:06] <jwinnebeck> Well I'm on bone
[21:16:06] <_av500_> thats best left to Chuck Norris
[21:16:11] * bgamari (~ben@physicsnat56.physics.umass.edu) has joined #beagle
[21:16:44] <LetoThe2nd> do the bartman
[21:16:59] <thurbad> can anyone suggest omap4 based boards that will be available as more than 1 off boards?
[21:17:29] <LetoThe2nd> thurbad: phytec, variscite.
[21:17:57] <thurbad> phytech seems a bit pricy, their devkit is $600
[21:18:26] <thurbad> dunno what the price point is at volume though
[21:19:10] <thurbad> also seems that they're using a custom linux distro, which is unappealing
[21:19:34] <LetoThe2nd> thurbad: oh usually phytex just is ptxdist :)
[21:21:15] <SilicaGel> From what I've seen so far the baord with 5V external input really sits around 350 mA
[21:21:31] <jwinnebeck> when I bitbake systemd-image, it builds a kernel. I would like to build just the kernel. I don't know what command to use to bitbake. I found a kernel .bb at meta-ti/recipes-kernel/linux/linux-ti33x-psp_3.2.bb and I can run that with bitbake -b and it builds a kernel
[21:21:37] <SilicaGel> which is what 1.75 watts?
[21:21:37] <jwinnebeck> But I don't know if that's the same one systemd-image builds
[21:21:44] <SilicaGel> It'll peak at a little more than that,
[21:21:44] <viridari> that number should go up if you plug in parasitic USB devices
[21:21:50] <SilicaGel> and sometimes when it's totally idle it will be low
[21:21:56] <SilicaGel> and adding usb devices yeah, of course adds more.
[21:22:06] <SilicaGel> You say heat but
[21:22:10] <SilicaGel> did you ever put your thumb on one
[21:22:15] <denix> virtual/kernel
[21:22:18] <SilicaGel> it barely even gets warm to the touch. It's pretty darned efficient.
[21:22:32] <jwinnebeck> ok
[21:22:59] <_av500_> google "angstrom kernel workflow"
[21:23:18] <jwinnebeck> Really waht I want to do is change kernel config... I found a file it is in linux-ti33x-psp-3.2/beaglebone/defconfig
[21:23:27] <jwinnebeck> it looks like that is what I want to modify
[21:23:32] <jwinnebeck> ok I will google
[21:23:44] <thurbad> if you're going to be tweaking the kernel use bitbake -f -c compile virtual/kernel
[21:23:47] <viridari> not the board, the power supply
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[21:23:57] <thurbad> thenbitback -c deploy virtual/kernel
[21:24:10] <_av500_> jwinnebeck: yes, the search result explains it all
[21:24:11] <thurbad> that way it doesn't delete the sources every time
[21:24:24] <_av500_> evil sources
[21:25:14] <jwinnebeck> Is modifying that defconfig file and keeping my own git branch and building with bitbake an appropriate way for me to get a systemd-image with a customized kernel (really, I want to build some more modules)
[21:25:58] <woglinde> hi jwinnebeck
[21:26:08] <jwinnebeck> hi woglinde
[21:27:15] <djlewis> beagleboard cpu/memory stack gets warm
[21:27:21] <jwinnebeck> I'm working slowly to figure this out... at a point I want to compile my own software, trying to figure out if I should learn/use bitbake or go it alone. With TI SDK I can get cross-compiler and I can make ipk files manually (as they are debs) but bitbake appears to be a better build system than bash
[21:27:26] <jwinnebeck> :)
[21:27:52] <woglinde> haha hrw ranting about archos
[21:27:55] <woglinde> -> http://planet.linuxtogo.org/
[21:29:06] <thurbad> angstrom setup scripts is probably one of the least steep learning curves for starting kernel dev work on the beagle
[21:29:26] <thurbad> don't have to know anything about cross-compiling to get started
[21:29:28] * _av500_ still wonders whether "steep" wrt learning curves is good or bad....
[21:29:46] <jwinnebeck> Well I'm not wanting to do kernel dev work
[21:29:47] <Maxz> jwinnebeck, if you want to modify the .config, a clean way is add a .patch in .bb file (there's a patch list)
[21:29:47] <_av500_> a steep trail gets one to the top faster or slower?
[21:29:52] <thurbad> depends on how far you want to go with it
[21:29:53] <woglinde> thurbad uhm? you dont need setup-scripts for kernel devel
[21:30:08] <mru> _av500_: steep learning curve used to mean getting to the top quickly, thus a good thing
[21:30:09] <djlewis> tasslehoff: i did the same google search
[21:30:16] <jwinnebeck> For right NOW all I want to do is compile UIO and uio_pruss as a module
[21:30:17] <mru> then the idiots came and ruined the meaning
[21:30:18] <thurbad> no, but you need to learn next to nothing to get started
[21:30:24] <jwinnebeck> I'm not adding/removing/changing any code
[21:30:33] <jwinnebeck> in the future, eventually I will have my own native software
[21:30:49] <woglinde> jwinnebeck checkout out the sources
[21:30:59] <jwinnebeck> for example maybe I want to compile a hello-world.ipk in C
[21:31:08] <jwinnebeck> woglinde: I do have the sources?
[21:31:23] <jwinnebeck> well I guess I have the bitbake stuff and meta-ti
[21:31:24] <woglinde> dont ask me
[21:31:33] <woglinde> I dont own your harddisk
[21:31:35] <jwinnebeck> I guess that fetches the source
[21:31:44] <tasslehoff> djlewis: I choose to forget the search and instead believe that koen is Batman. That will make the discussions hereafter more fun :p
[21:31:51] <jwinnebeck> Well I compiled the kernel
[21:31:52] <jwinnebeck> :)
[21:32:02] <jwinnebeck> the sources are there now
[21:32:06] <woglinde> jwinnebeck so where is the problem?
[21:32:20] <thurbad> if you want to compile C then either learn how to cross compile, or go the slow route and build with the native sdk
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[21:33:07] <jwinnebeck> woglinde: Well I found kernel source at setup-scripts/build/tmp-angstrom_2010_x-eglibc/sysroots/beaglebone/kernel, after running bitbake. That's obviously a transient location
[21:33:12] <jwinnebeck> I need to modify the recipe
[21:33:15] <jwinnebeck> Which I found
[21:33:27] <jwinnebeck> so I think that is sufficient
[21:33:41] <jwinnebeck> I have the sources to the meta-ti
[21:33:42] <thurbad> it's not a transient recipe if you use the commands I posted
[21:33:46] <woglinde> you dont need to modify the script
[21:33:53] <jwinnebeck> Not the script, there is a file in there defconfig
[21:33:56] <jwinnebeck> which is a kernel config file
[21:33:57] <woglinde> update the defconfig
[21:34:02] <jwinnebeck> I assume it's copied into build
[21:34:03] <jwinnebeck> then used
[21:34:06] <woglinde> yes
[21:34:15] * SilicaGel2 (~quassel@cpe-69-207-190-61.rochester.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[21:34:15] <thurbad> the full recipe does rm_work at the end
[21:34:23] <jwinnebeck> OK so our conversations are just out of sync that is all
[21:34:24] <SilicaGel> uh oh
[21:34:30] <woglinde> bitbake -c devshell foo is usefull too
[21:34:49] <jwinnebeck> I just need to enable a couple modules I can get it by changing the defconfig and when I do builds in the future I'll have those modules
[21:35:07] <woglinde> yes
[21:35:11] <woglinde> so no problem
[21:35:14] <jwinnebeck> yep
[21:35:15] <woglinde> you figured all out
[21:35:21] <jwinnebeck> So far... :)
[21:35:43] <jwinnebeck> in the future I will figure out what compiler it is using so I can use it or make a .bb for my own non-kernel code
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[21:35:55] <jwinnebeck> Probably is the appropriate system
[21:36:05] <jwinnebeck> since bitbake is somehow already figured out where gcc/libc/etc are
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[21:36:16] <_av500_> mru: ack
[21:37:26] <mru> _av500_: now they complain about the lack of escalator
[21:38:40] <woglinde> jwinnebeck figure out how to write a recipe
[21:38:48] <woglinde> and you are done ;)
[21:38:48] <jwinnebeck> yeah I will... over time
[21:39:01] <jwinnebeck> I've read http://bitbake.berlios.de/manual/ but not amazing there
[21:39:14] <woglinde> hm thats old
[21:39:37] * tasslehoff (~tasslehof@145.79-161-31.customer.lyse.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[21:40:15] <jwinnebeck> I noticed
[21:40:23] <jwinnebeck> but on the OE wiki linked to there as well
[21:40:27] <jwinnebeck> I was surfing OE wiki
[21:40:35] <jwinnebeck> I know angstrom is a derivative of OE
[21:40:42] * wizzkaz (~wizzkaz@77-22-70-121-dynip.superkabel.de) Quit (Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~)
[21:40:47] <jwinnebeck> but googling for "bitbake kernel" mostly came up with OE stuff
[21:41:24] <woglinde> right because is the only user of bitbake so far
[21:41:30] <woglinde> args +oe
[21:43:08] <jwinnebeck> you think if I want to compile some random foobar application for bone that using this bitbake build environment is the appropriate way? I've been thinking so despite the learning curve because all of the cross-compiling is there, the libs are there, bitbake understands dependencies, and I know the libs there are the same as in systemd-image because I made it
[21:43:30] <jwinnebeck> also if I make jwinnebeck-image then when angstrom is updated, my software is recompiled automatically
[21:44:18] <woglinde> why you dont want an ipk or deb falling out for your soft?
[21:44:46] <jwinnebeck> I do
[21:44:59] <jwinnebeck> isn't that what everything on there comes out as ipk for the most part?
[21:45:17] <jwinnebeck> For Java software I can continue to use maven, since I don't need to worry about libs/cross-compile
[21:45:29] <jwinnebeck> there comes out a deb, which is simple enough to also be an ipk
[21:45:29] <woglinde> o.O
[21:45:34] <_av500_> write once, run everywhere!
[21:45:36] <jwinnebeck> but for any native softwares...
[21:45:53] <_av500_> (except android)
[21:46:00] <_av500_> or ios
[21:46:00] <woglinde> *g*
[21:46:02] <_av500_> or winphone7
[21:46:05] <mru> _av500_: it's write once, curse everywhere
[21:46:14] <woglinde> this annoying android buildprocess
[21:46:16] <_av500_> or html5
[21:46:29] <_av500_> woglinde: let make and gcc do it for you
[21:46:31] <woglinde> hm where does html5 not run?
[21:46:38] <woglinde> av500 not javac?
[21:46:42] <_av500_> woglinde: it was about java
[21:46:52] <jwinnebeck> I'm getting onboard the HTML5 stuff
[21:46:59] <_av500_> woglinde: I dont care about the java parts of android
[21:47:01] <woglinde> html5 in java?
[21:47:05] <jwinnebeck> I'm wondering if it's smart to build my UX in HTML5
[21:47:09] <jwinnebeck> instead of Jav
[21:47:15] <_av500_> woglinde: no?
[21:47:15] <jwinnebeck> then it works on android and linux and windows
[21:47:19] <jwinnebeck> not ios though
[21:47:28] <_av500_> ios is html4 still?
[21:47:29] <jwinnebeck> not unless someone has JVM working there
[21:47:37] <jwinnebeck> actually mobile is good with HTML5
[21:47:46] <jwinnebeck> it's better than most desktop browsers
[21:47:48] <woglinde> its so funny that the chromeos guys now fixing the android webkit
[21:47:51] <jwinnebeck> they are all webkit based
[21:47:56] * _av500_ thinks everywhere is a small place these days
[21:48:22] <_av500_> woglinde: its a open secret the android team and chromeos team cannot stand each other
[21:48:23] <thurbad> html 5 would be nice if it was implemented the same on various browsers :/
[21:48:42] <jwinnebeck> Actually sorry I buzzworded you
[21:48:44] <woglinde> _av500_ sure like in ti or samsung
[21:48:45] <jwinnebeck> I don't care about HTML5
[21:48:48] <_av500_> they dont allow each other into their buildings on google campus
[21:48:48] <woglinde> or nokia
[21:48:50] <jwinnebeck> HTML4 + recent Javascript
[21:48:51] <woglinde> nothing new
[21:48:59] <thurbad> though if you have them all on a fixed browser it removes that problem
[21:49:02] <jwinnebeck> The point is that HTML is better than swing
[21:49:12] <jwinnebeck> Javascript is easier than C coding
[21:49:17] <thurbad> javascript is the same problem
[21:49:20] <jwinnebeck> and HTML better at layout...
[21:49:24] <_av500_> my kids prefer a swing
[21:49:44] <jwinnebeck> But if I use HTML as UX I am afraid how bad it looks
[21:49:49] <jwinnebeck> run web server on localhost
[21:49:51] <jwinnebeck> browser to localhost
[21:49:55] <jwinnebeck> run app as service
[21:50:05] <woglinde> rup
[21:50:06] <jwinnebeck> But it means one UX to rule them all
[21:50:08] <woglinde> yeah
[21:50:13] <woglinde> rup it all the way
[21:50:13] <jwinnebeck> and also instant remote capability
[21:50:18] * _av500_ feels an incoming paradigm shift, braces
[21:50:33] <jwinnebeck> So on the bone, it doesn't have a display
[21:50:37] <jwinnebeck> so I can display UX on my android
[21:50:49] <jwinnebeck> and were I to put display on bone it could work there
[21:51:00] <jwinnebeck> but then you have overhead of a browser and some graphics environment
[21:51:08] <thurbad> ios intentionally breaks javascript/html 5 features apple finds aesthetically displeasing, like autostart of video
[21:51:29] <_av500_> s/displeasing/annoying/
[21:51:34] <_av500_> and rightly so
[21:51:58] <thurbad> it really is /bad/ design but that doesn't mean their the arbiters of proper
[21:52:05] <thurbad> they're
[21:52:09] <_av500_> thurbad: of course they are
[21:52:13] <thurbad> lol
[21:52:28] <_av500_> turn around your iphone, does it say apple or samsung?
[21:52:49] <thurbad> it says HTC/AT&T
[21:52:51] <mru> my phone says samsung
[21:52:56] <mru> and google
[21:52:57] <woglinde> bada
[21:53:05] <LetoThe2nd> bada-boom?
[21:53:15] * BlInK311 (~BlInK311@ool-435317d6.dyn.optonline.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[21:53:16] <woglinde> ask samsung
[21:53:24] <thurbad> and my phone didn't come with an overpriced 'i' at the front
[21:53:35] * c4milo (~c4milo@207-38-137-125.c3-0.avec-ubr2.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com) Quit (Quit: c4milo)
[21:53:35] <_av500_> LetoThe2nd: badaboob
[21:53:36] <LetoThe2nd> i think i'll rather ask bruce and milla
[21:54:05] <woglinde> who is milla?
[21:54:07] <LetoThe2nd> _av500_: hey, its still 7 minutes till 23:00 (FSK18)
[21:54:28] <thurbad> the 5th element stars
[21:54:33] <LetoThe2nd> woglinde: google "big badaboom"
[21:54:42] <_av500_> LetoThe2nd: and I thought you people were ahead of the crowd
[21:54:46] <woglinde> hm to arrogant to do it
[21:54:48] <thurbad> milla jovavich and bruce williw
[21:54:48] <djlewis> seems iphones could be dirt cheap considering where and how they are made.
[21:54:52] <woglinde> ah right
[21:54:53] <woglinde> yes
[21:55:06] <woglinde> but resident evil was still better
[21:55:09] <LetoThe2nd> _av500_: hrhrhr
[21:55:09] <thurbad> willis even
[21:55:20] <thurbad> I still haven't seen the last resident evil
[21:55:38] <mru> woglinde: some films are not watched primarily for the deep plot
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[21:56:12] <LetoThe2nd> i can only emphasize the worth of bolls films, especially the bloodrayne series :)
[21:56:20] <woglinde> mru did I say something about plots?
[21:56:33] <LetoThe2nd> or dead or alive, if you are more into bubblegum colors :)
[21:56:49] <thurbad> uwe didn't have a hand inresident evil, did he?
[21:56:56] <mru> woglinde: you compared the relative qualities of two films both starring milla jovovich
[21:57:00] <woglinde> thurbad he had
[21:57:07] <_av500_> djlewis: so is most consumer stuff
[21:57:16] <mru> boht have milla => both equally good
[21:57:24] <thurbad> wow, I thought it made to much money to be one of his
[21:57:48] <woglinde> hm or was it someone other film
[21:57:52] <woglinde> he made so many
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[21:58:22] <woglinde> there is iphone
[21:58:32] <thurbad> he usually specializes in losing ventures to get tax write offs for investors, some german loop hole that's been closed somewhat recently
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[21:59:44] * _av500_ wishes his taxes paid would at least result in bad movies...
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[22:00:12] <LetoThe2nd> _av500_: business proposal - lets start making bad movies.
[22:00:17] <thurbad> like the dungeon siege movie that I saw a trailer for in the theater then never heard of again
[22:00:41] <_av500_> many movies are best seen as trailers
[22:01:00] <LetoThe2nd> av500: can you bring a camcorder? i'll bring beer and some metal cds fr the soundtrack :)
[22:01:22] <muriani> thurbad: everyhing I hear about that movie was bad.
[22:01:24] <woglinde> thurbad you mean -> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0460780/
[22:01:31] <muriani> like, horrible horrible bad.
[22:01:38] * OrlandoT (~kdoslaos@pool-74-105-171-157.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net) has joined #beaglebone
[22:01:48] <muriani> But, it's an Uwe Boll film, so that's to be expected.
[22:01:50] <woglinde> muriani it was so bad that it was funny again
[22:01:53] * KimK (~Kim__@209.248.147.2.nw.nuvox.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[22:01:58] <OrlandoT> What is the easiest way to get started writing device drivers for beaglebone?
[22:02:01] <muriani> woglinde: was it?
[22:02:04] <thurbad> I think it was uwe's last film
[22:02:05] <woglinde> yeah
[22:02:13] <muriani> because I've only seen one such like that
[22:02:26] <muriani> the Dead or Alive movie (based on the games)
[22:02:34] <_av500_> "...Please never sell a video game to Uwe Boll ever again.
[22:02:37] <woglinde> muriani and you can say what you want, he get many famous actors
[22:02:39] <_av500_> epic comment
[22:02:40] <thurbad> oh n... he's still makingmovies
[22:02:41] <woglinde> got
[22:02:47] <muriani> oh yeah, he does
[22:02:51] * OrlandoT (~kdoslaos@pool-74-105-171-157.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net) has joined #beagle
[22:02:52] <muriani> I don't know how.
[22:02:54] <LetoThe2nd> muriani: nope, D0A was somebody completely different.
[22:03:05] <OrlandoT> What is the easiest way to get started writing device drivers for beaglebone?
[22:03:07] <muriani> LetoThe2nd: I found it hilarious
[22:03:18] <woglinde> OrlandoT learning kernel coding?
[22:03:28] <_av500_> OrlandoT: reusing an existing one
[22:03:28] <LetoThe2nd> muriani: one of the funniest movies ev4r :)
[22:03:32] <thurbad> lmao he even made a sequel to the dungeon siege film
[22:03:41] <muriani> Russian dude plows through the wall, and then pumps his arms to the sound of a cocking shotgun.
[22:03:45] <muriani> BEST. SCENE. EVER.
[22:03:48] <SilicaGel> I'd read LDD3 first
[22:04:07] <SilicaGel> Developing device drivers for the bone isn't much different than developing device drivers for anything else on linux
[22:04:12] <muriani> I seriously backed up and watched that shot 3 times.
[22:04:25] <SilicaGel> compared to x86, you don't use inb and outb and such because peripherals in arm are memory mapped
[22:05:10] <OrlandoT> yes, learning kernel coding
[22:05:17] <LetoThe2nd> muriani: the same scene where he punches through the wall right onto the bed with the blonde?
[22:05:26] <OrlandoT> I have done some in the past but it has been many years noow
[22:06:14] <OrlandoT> I remember I could just download the headers for my kernel (like an SDK) and program my driver modules against that instead of having to have the whole kernel source code
[22:06:26] <_av500_> well
[22:06:30] <OrlandoT> that's how I want to do it
[22:06:36] <_av500_> you can get header and source code easily
[22:06:59] <woglinde> okay good nite
[22:06:59] <_av500_> but you are free to ignore the source
[22:07:02] * woglinde (~heinold@g229104151.adsl.alicedsl.de) Quit (Quit: zapp)
[22:07:08] * LetoThe2nd also heads off. seeya
[22:07:08] <Maxz> LetoThe2nd, if you know how the device works (physical addresses) you can mmap /dev/mem to access to device registers
[22:07:11] <OrlandoT> for the Angstrom distro? I imagine they patch the main line kernel
[22:07:29] <_av500_> they patch some kernel
[22:07:44] * c4milo (~c4milo@207-38-137-125.c3-0.avec-ubr2.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com) Quit (Quit: me fui)
[22:08:29] <OrlandoT> at this time I am following the instructions at http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/building-angstrom
[22:08:35] <Maxz> a pwm driver was written in userspace using /dev/mem on beagleboard
[22:08:38] <OrlandoT> but I am thinking it might be overkill for what I want
[22:10:15] <Maxz> s/LetoThe2nd/OrlandoT
[22:10:58] <OrlandoT> I want to work in kernel space but perhaps LetoThe2nd wouldn't mind user space
[22:11:53] <OrlandoT> yup, I agree with you
[22:11:59] <thurbad> if you don't have to work at kernel level don't... debugging is harder, and it can make the system less stable
[22:12:04] <OrlandoT> I already have the book
[22:12:32] <OrlandoT> but I want to develop device drivers for the Angstrom distro wich patches the main line kernel and uses it
[22:13:02] <Maxz> yeah
[22:13:20] <OrlandoT> I want to know if there is a package I can download that only has the necessary header and such for me to develop device drivers modules without having to build the whole Angstrom distro
[22:14:16] <OrlandoT> true but I believe I might need the performance boost
[22:14:20] <SilicaGel> yeah
[22:14:26] <SilicaGel> we're trying to figure out bitbake over here as well
[22:14:28] <thurbad> not a good enough excuse
[22:14:30] <_av500_> OrlandoT: what are you tring to do?
[22:14:30] <Maxz> perfomance?
[22:14:31] <OrlandoT> plus is a learning experience that I want to go through
[22:14:33] <SilicaGel> you can downlaod the whole package and build virtual/kernel
[22:14:36] <_av500_> trying
[22:14:46] <thurbad> if you need that boost you should get a better system
[22:14:51] <_av500_> what kind of driver are we talking about?
[22:15:04] <OrlandoT> a CODEC driver
[22:15:05] * Daniel___ (~Daniel@nat/ti/x-ozoslwcxjfxcjsvh) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[22:15:24] <OrlandoT> it will use i2c and McASP
[22:15:34] <djlewis> once you have done the whole build once then it just builds changes
[22:15:35] * Daniel___ (~Daniel@nat/ti/x-dggvuuoigwhtpgeu) has joined #beagle
[22:15:35] <Maxz> nice -20
[22:15:42] <Maxz> :P
[22:15:44] * KimK (~Kim__@209.248.147.2.nw.nuvox.net) has joined #beagle
[22:15:47] <SilicaGel> yeah
[22:15:50] <_av500_> OrlandoT: well, kernel it is then
[22:15:55] <OrlandoT> -20?
[22:16:07] <SilicaGel> i know where he's coming from though djlewis
[22:16:12] <SilicaGel> When I started doing this i had the same question:
[22:16:16] <SilicaGel> how do I get just the angstrom kernel,
[22:16:20] <SilicaGel> and build it however th ehell I want
[22:16:24] <SilicaGel> without having to d**k around with bitbake
[22:16:28] * tor (~tor@c-1465e655.125-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[22:16:30] <SilicaGel> It frustrated and confused the living crap out of me
[22:16:36] <Maxz> your driver as userspace program need the most favorable scheduling
[22:16:38] <SilicaGel> make ARCH=arm CROSS_COMPILE=arm-arago-linux-gnueabi- uImage
[22:16:48] <SilicaGel> that's what I did with the T.I. kernel and it was fine and happy
[22:16:57] <Maxz> (if you use /dev/mem)
[22:17:07] <SilicaGel> but with the angstrom one, you can't do that, beacuse it's a kernel + 278951278957891257981295781789 patches it has to apply
[22:17:19] <thurbad> by codec do you mean like an audio codec a multimedia compression/decompression algorithm?
[22:17:35] <SilicaGel> if you know a way to download and build JUST the kernel using bitbake, and could explain it to me, that would make me happy as a clam
[22:17:47] <_av500_> the former i guess
[22:17:57] <OrlandoT> like a driver that controls a codec chip
[22:18:06] <_av500_> yes
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[22:18:15] <thurbad> tehe former is appropriate to code in kernel space
[22:18:15] <_av500_> plenty of these in the kernel arlready
[22:18:24] <_av500_> what codec?
[22:18:26] <OrlandoT> yeah
[22:18:40] <OrlandoT> the AIC3106
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[22:19:06] <thurbad> there are generic drivers for that already
[22:19:12] <OrlandoT> yup
[22:19:13] <thurbad> you could start there
[22:19:20] <OrlandoT> yes I sure will
[22:19:30] <thurbad> and implement any missing features
[22:19:31] <OrlandoT> i only want to port it
[22:19:49] <thurbad> what system are you porting to?
[22:19:51] <OrlandoT> to the Sitara AM335
[22:20:14] <OrlandoT> which uses this McASP module that I have never heard of lol
[22:20:43] <thurbad> yeah I'm only vaguely familiar with McBSP
[22:20:57] <OrlandoT> I hope there are drivers already in the distro for thta McASP module
[22:21:34] <_av500_> its just a bunch of registers
[22:21:42] <_av500_> and I guess you can use it as a simple mcbsp
[22:21:50] <_av500_> and theres toons of drivers for that
[22:21:54] * kkeller1 (~Ken_Kelle@97-124-115-64.phnx.qwest.net) has joined #beagle
[22:21:57] <mru> is there anything that is _not_ a bunch of registers?
[22:22:01] <OrlandoT> I am not familiar with the mcbsp
[22:22:23] <OrlandoT> exactly everything is just a bunch of registers but the devil is always in the details
[22:22:32] * bhthompson (bhthompson@nat/google/x-nkwhfnsnjzgzhkvm) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[22:22:47] <_av500_> the devil is just a bunch of registers
[22:23:05] <OrlandoT> lol
[22:23:37] <mru> ok, I know where that quote is going...
[22:23:42] <thurbad> does the aic3106 support McASP? we use an aic310x chip and it uses McBSP
[22:23:43] <OrlandoT> I'm just not familiar with Angstrom and Bitbake
[22:23:44] <Maxz> do you prefer x86 ports?
[22:23:46] <_av500_> darn
[22:23:55] <Maxz> memory mapped devices rocks
[22:24:08] <mru> x86 "ports" are just memory in a different address space
[22:24:11] <OrlandoT> no, i prefer memory mapped IO
[22:24:20] <mru> or can be seen as such if one prefers at least
[22:24:26] <Maxz> mru without mmu in 386
[22:24:28] * dENNES (~Adium@port375.ds1-hr.adsl.cybercity.dk) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[22:24:42] <mru> dame difference
[22:24:43] <_av500_> http://e2e.ti.com/support/dsp/sitara_arm174_microprocessors/f/416/t/136936.aspx
[22:24:44] <mru> same
[22:24:52] <Maxz> i prefer memory mapped because MMU
[22:24:59] * kkeller (~Ken_Kelle@97-124-113-46.phnx.qwest.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[22:24:59] <mru> mmu has nothing to do with it
[22:25:02] <OrlandoT> thurbad: it supports I2S and the McASP can be used as a I2S bus too
[22:25:14] * kkeller1 is now known as kkeller
[22:25:33] <Maxz> mru, in microkernel is useful
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[22:25:52] <mru> I didn't say an mmu is not useful
[22:26:02] <_av500_> even in macrokernel
[22:26:07] <mru> just that it has no bearing on the mmio vs ports distinction
[22:26:08] <jkridner__> LetoThe2nd: sorry for the delay, but I have to give props for the Iron Maiden reference. :)
[22:26:41] <thurbad> do you already have the aic310x source?
[22:27:07] <_av500_> the vhdl code?
[22:27:13] * Barbara_iphone (~barbara_i@93-45-64-8.ip101.fastwebnet.it) Quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi)
[22:27:29] <thurbad> we had to get that from our vendor then forward port it to our kernel version
[22:28:11] <_av500_> McASP does standard I2S modes
[22:28:16] <_av500_> as does McBSP
[22:29:18] <thurbad> that alsa stuff was sufficiently confusing
[22:32:24] * _av500_ used AIC31 in the past, wonders how similar to 3106 that is
[22:32:45] <SilicaGel> no mcbsp in bone though, it's a McSPI
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[22:33:01] <SilicaGel> Can McASP be put into a more normal spi like mode?
[22:33:12] <_av500_> no
[22:33:19] <_av500_> because that is what the McSPI is for
[22:33:26] <SilicaGel> yeah
[22:34:19] * _roger_ (~a0740758@nat/ti/x-tuzbkmilydemrwcz) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[22:34:57] <OrlandoT> thurbad: I have requested the source for the aic3106 from TI already but have not yet received it because I asked for it on saturday
[22:35:14] <OrlandoT> me too lol
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[22:37:08] * mmetzger would also vote for a simple guide to add a kernel module
[22:38:27] <_av500_> so msbsp can be SPI
[22:38:45] <_av500_> and mcasp cant
[22:38:50] <SilicaGel> RR
[22:38:53] <xenland> Thanx SilicaGel
[22:39:05] <SilicaGel> i needed spi working continuously
[22:39:21] <SilicaGel> but there's more magic involved than that, multipel devices with output goign to multiple DMA
[22:39:28] <OrlandoT> it seems like there isn't a package with the required headers and such for Angstrom (BeagleBone) that I can just download and start writing my driver module for it :-(. Well, it seems like I will have to build the whole Angstrom first
[22:39:35] * powool (~pha@redrum.sph.umich.edu) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[22:39:35] <SilicaGel> so i'm working on using the PRU for that
[22:39:59] <SilicaGel> or you could just download T.I. SDK and compile the kernel inside that, and develop your driver against that to start with
[22:40:04] <_av500_> http://davinci-linux-open-source.1494791.n2.nabble.com/PATCH-1-1-Add-AIC3106-support-td2884594.html
[22:41:00] <_av500_> it just adds some stuff to the existing 31x driver
[22:41:01] <OrlandoT> SilicaGel really? they have an SDK for the same kernel version use by Angstrom in the Beaglebone?
[22:41:02] * jwinnebeck (~jpwasp@austria.main.ad.rit.edu) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[22:41:15] <SilicaGel> not the same version
[22:41:17] <_av500_> I would stay away from SDKs
[22:41:20] <SilicaGel> but probably close enough to do your driver development?
[22:41:23] <_av500_> just build angstro
[22:41:27] <_av500_> m
[22:41:31] <SilicaGel> or that yeah
[22:41:40] <OrlandoT> then I think it is safer to build angstrom
[22:41:43] <SilicaGel> I tend to agree
[22:41:54] <SilicaGel> T.I. linuxsdk is arago
[22:42:02] <SilicaGel> and arago is angstrom
[22:42:07] <SilicaGel> and angstrom is oe
[22:42:12] <OrlandoT> cause the driver module has to be compiled against sourcers/headers for the same version of kernel where the module is going to run
[22:42:14] <SilicaGel> the T.I. stuff, generally, tends to be behind
[22:42:36] <SilicaGel> yes
[22:42:57] <thurbad> like I said... we had to forward port to get it to work with 2.6.32
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[22:43:53] <OrlandoT> i see
[22:44:25] <thurbad> the structs had changed a bit between the version we received and 2.6.32, tried forward porting it to 2.6.38 and ran out of allocated time for the project without getting it to work
[22:44:56] <_av500_> linux/sound/soc/codecs/tlv320aic3x.c
[22:45:01] <OrlandoT> ouch sorry to hear that
[22:45:16] <_av500_> which is in 3.0.8
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[22:45:31] <thurbad> it's fine, 2.6.32 works for what we need currently
[22:45:46] <thurbad> av500... but does it work? or is it cruft?
[22:46:29] <_av500_> thurbad: it's ..... open source!
[22:46:56] <thurbad> lol, true if nothing else it's a starting point
[22:48:04] <_av500_> so instead of theoretical musings, I would dive into that code...
[22:48:52] <dwery> SilicaGel: I use make ARCH=.. on koen's github tree
[22:52:10] <jay6981> hp 3000 systems had stack based cpu hardware as opposed to registers
[22:52:55] <mru> as is x87
[22:53:27] <mru> and a few others
[22:53:44] <mru> but that's irrelevant, because what did you think that stack was made of?
[22:55:01] * djerome (~djerome@ip68-2-20-108.ph.ph.cox.net) has joined #beaglebone
[22:56:40] <_av500_> silicone?
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[22:57:14] <mru> are those registers real or just silicon implants?
[22:57:29] <_av500_> they stack up nicely
[22:59:51] <jay6981> i suppose the same way you'd build it in software. some memory for the data and the pointers
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[23:03:50] <ds2> Mmmmm postscript machines
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[23:12:40] <aholler> because I've missed a possibility to rant about java, is it now possible to build android on 64bit systems?
[23:16:34] <_av500_> aholler: according to the android build system, its only possible on 64bit
[23:16:40] <_av500_> which is of course nonsense
[23:16:51] <_av500_> because for now it works fine on 32bit
[23:17:09] <mru> because aholler missed a rant
[23:17:09] <_av500_> but I guess they will stop shipping 32bit version of the toolchain at some point
[23:17:17] <aholler> oh, now only? must have changed from 32bit only to 64bit only in the last year ;)
[23:17:28] <_av500_> dont think so
[23:18:28] <_av500_> http://gitorious.org/asac-android-platform/prebuilt/trees/donut
[23:18:32] <aholler> If I remember correctly building android was only possible with using 32bit-java-stuff.
[23:18:33] <_av500_> 64bit back in donut
[23:19:12] <_av500_> not in cupcake: http://gitorious.org/asac-android-platform/prebuilt/trees/cupcake-release
[23:19:19] <_av500_> so, since donut
[23:21:59] <aholler> than maybe it was the other way around ;)
[23:22:32] <aholler> ah, no: "If you want to build Android 2.3 or later, you must use 64-bit version of Linux. The build even won???t start on 32-bit Linux. As opposite, earlier versions of Android OS required 32-bit Linux to build. Although some developers reported building Android OS 2.2 and earlier on 64-bit Linux, it didn???t work for everybody. If you already have 64-bit Linux, you may be able to resolve the problem by installing 32-bit Linux as a host syst
[23:24:26] * bgamari (~ben@physicsnat56.physics.umass.edu) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[23:24:26] <_av500_> ICS still builds on 32bit
[23:24:34] <_av500_> you need to patch one line
[23:26:15] * guanucoluis (~luis@201-212-24-124.cab.prima.net.ar) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[23:26:57] <aholler> btw. for those node.js-fans: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/02/17/node_js_native_c_plus_plus/
[23:27:16] <aholler> Why C++ is doubleplusgood ;)
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[23:39:19] <ATP> when I connect my usb touchscreen I get this: "hub 1-2:1.0 : connect-debounce failed, port 2 disabled"
[23:39:22] * rcranetx (~rcranetx@nat/ti/x-pbzrionsiqadgxno) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[23:39:26] <ATP> anyone know what it means?
[23:41:16] <Russ> it means that it failed to enumerate at a protocol level iirc
[23:41:33] <Russ> probably something wrong with D+/D-
[23:41:41] <thurbad> are you using a hub?
[23:41:50] * lyakh (~lyakh@dslb-146-060-124-105.pools.arcor-ip.net) Quit (Quit: thanks, bye)
[23:41:52] <Russ> or not enough power going to the device and it browns out
[23:42:02] <aholler> connect to what?
[23:42:10] <thurbad> he's using a C4, I believe
[23:42:19] <ATP> yes and yes
[23:42:33] <ATP> C4 and usb hub
[23:42:36] <Russ> if you plug it into something else, does it enumerate?
[23:42:44] <ATP> no does the same thing
[23:42:45] <thurbad> is the hub powered?
[23:42:54] <ATP> yes it is
[23:43:17] <thurbad> so it does the same if plugged into your desktop?
[23:43:22] <ATP> 5V 2.5A
[23:43:42] <ATP> all other devices work fine
[23:43:48] <ATP> except the touchscreen
[23:44:25] <ATP> this touchscreen cant be plugged in my desktop , its connected and power by the beagle :/
[23:44:32] <ATP> powered*
[23:45:02] <thurbad> ah, so it dosen't have separate display and touch element?
[23:45:37] <ATP> no its one thing
[23:46:12] <thurbad> for instance we can turn off our monitor at the dss sysfs level and wake up on touchscreen events
[23:46:16] <ATP> with two cables one goes to a pcb which i connect to beagle and one goes to usb
[23:46:56] <Russ> does the panel connection power everything, does the usb connection power everything, or is it a combination?
[23:47:05] <thurbad> obviously our monitor is not completely powered off
[23:47:57] <ATP> i think its a combination tbh,not quite sure
[23:48:09] <ATP> here it is: http://www.chalk-elec.com/?page_id=1280#ecwid:category=0&mode=product&product=7703686
[23:48:17] <ATP> i just bought it
[23:49:17] <_av500_> and did you ask them?
[23:49:23] <Russ> I'm not seeing any datasheets or documentation
[23:49:57] <ATP> they have some datasheets at the support page
[23:50:08] <ATP> i didnt ask them yet
[23:50:17] <ATP> i was hoping its something normal
[23:50:36] <thurbad> our touchscreen is powered by the USB
[23:50:41] <ATP> "Typical current is around 200mA for logic (at 3.3V), 30mA for touchscreen controller (at 5V) and 350mA for backlight (at 5V). In-rush current is around 1.5A."
[23:50:43] <Russ> if it doesn't enumerate at the protocol level, there isn't much the beagle can do
[23:50:55] <Russ> especially if it doesn't even enumerate on a pc
[23:51:04] <thurbad> pulled the plug on the monitor and was still able to interface with our hardware through the touchscreen
[23:51:12] <Russ> 1.5A is more than many hubs will support
[23:51:23] <Russ> especially if the hub is bus powered
[23:51:28] <Russ> is your hub bus powered?
[23:51:48] <ATP> it has its own adapter
[23:51:53] <ATP> if you mean that
[23:52:02] <Russ> what is the power rating on that?
[23:52:57] <ATP> where can i see that? its a nec usb hub
[23:53:04] <Russ> on the brick
[23:53:12] <Russ> wall wart
[23:53:49] <ATP> what sorry do you mean the adapter?
[23:54:07] <ATP> it says 5V , 2.5 A if that helps
[23:54:18] <Russ> 'it has its own adapter'
[23:54:20] <ATP> as output that is
[23:54:31] <thurbad> the wall wart would be the external power supply for the hub
[23:54:52] <ATP> yes
[23:54:59] <Russ> eh, the 1.5A is for the lcd anyway
[23:55:07] <Russ> the power requirements for the touch sensor is 32mA
[23:55:58] <ATP> so do you think the current may not be enough?
[23:56:13] <Russ> 32mA is not a problem for just about anything to provide
[23:56:18] <Russ> (USB)
[23:56:24] <ATP> indeed
[23:56:34] <thurbad> 32mA should be easily accomplished
[23:56:56] <ATP> so are we sure it's a power problem?
[23:57:05] <ATP> i can buy a new hub if thats it
[23:57:08] <Russ> I think we've ruled that out
[23:57:18] <ATP> oh ok
[23:57:31] <ATP> so could it be a bad usb cable?
[23:57:35] <Russ> do you get the same connect-debounce message on your linux PC when you plug it directly in?
[23:57:46] <thurbad> I'd plug it in to a pc then check dmesg
[23:57:55] <ATP> ok gonna try
[23:58:00] <Russ> (no hub)
[23:58:01] <ATP> brb
[23:58:06] <ATP> kk
[23:59:22] <ATP> yes i get same error
[23:59:38] <ATP> unable to enumerate device on port 1
[23:59:46] <ATP> similar error i meant

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